6.5 Needmoor ~ Federal +Peak

adamthebad said:
barrel BBQ...keep your Gunsmith Happy

Standard 6.5 Creedmoor @ 62,000 psi @
2,500 – 3,000+ @ 1 barrel
versus
Standard 6.5 PRC @ 65,000 psi @ 1,100 – 1,500 @ 1 barrel
versus
Federal +Peak 6.5 Creedmoor @ 80,000 psi @ Estimated under 500 @ 1 barrel.

PHYSICs deficiet....
To equal 6.5 PRC velocities out of a tiny Creedmoor powder volume, the peak temperature and physical pressure spike must be incredibly violent.

Cookin...HEAT IS NEAT!
Because peak pressure occurs right as the bullet engraves into the rifling, an 80,000 psi spike acts like a high-velocity plasma torch. It forces extreme heat into the steel surface, micro-cracking and stripping away the throat at a fraction of the time a standard magnum would.
Click to expand...
To get those pressures and velocity, they need more powder so where do they put it?
 
DGY said:
To get those pressures and velocity, they need more powder so where do they put it?
Click to expand...
The physical internal volume of a 6.5 Creedmoor case is small—it can only hold roughly 47 to 48 grains of powder max before it overflows. You physically cannot fit enough standard, slow-burning magnum powder inside a Creedmoor case to reach 6.5 PRC ballistics.
SOOO
The 80,000 to 85,000 psi doesn’t come from packing more powder (my guess; H4350 or H4831SC) into the case. It comes from changing the TYPE of powder and re-engineer the case.to handle it all...

Too bad the barrels were not done first cause there is this fantastic illusion;
Federal's marketing claims that because the steel case is so strong, it acts as a "containment vessel" that protects your rifle action from stretching or failing.

While that steel might save your bolt face from melting, it does absolutely nothing to protect your barrel.

The moment that bullet leaves the neck of the case, that 80,000+ psi wall of hyper-velocity fire hits the bare steel of your custom /standard throat.

It doesn't matter if the powder charge is only 43 grains instead of a PRC's 55 grains—spiking that fast powder to proof-load pressures turns the gas into a concentrated plasma torch.

THERE is no barrel made or steel that will last with that....no element or alloy on the periodic table can handle the direct, repeated exposure of an 85,000 psi small-bore powder explosion without rapid degradation.
 
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Well said. Better explanation than my weak attempt. Time will tell what torching is happening on the barrels. I feel the large powder granule erosion may disappear as it is smaller grained. So many questions and very few answers.
 
adamthebad said:
While that steel might save your bolt face from melting, it does absolutely nothing to protect your barrel.

The moment that bullet leaves the neck of the case, that 80,000+ psi wall of hyper-velocity fire hits the bare steel of your custom /standard throat.
Click to expand...

Have you seen any people talking about barrel life on 7 back country yet? I just did a quick Google search and didn't find any reports from someone who's actually shot out a 7 BC, just people speculating.

Certainly barrels will wear faster with this case tech. That seems painfully obvious. But the specifics I can't say - which has the bigger impact, case capacity or pressure? If this falls between PRC and CM for barrel life it'll be a hit. But if that extra pressure actually causes FASTER wear than a PRC I can't see this getting far.
 
adamthebad said:
The physical internal volume of a 6.5 Creedmoor case is small—it can only hold roughly 47 to 48 grains of powder max before it overflows. You physically cannot fit enough standard, slow-burning magnum powder inside a Creedmoor case to reach 6.5 PRC ballistics.
SOOO
The 80,000 to 85,000 psi doesn’t come from packing more powder (my guess; H4350 or H4831SC) into the case. It comes from changing the TYPE of powder and re-engineer the case.to handle it all...

Too bad the barrels were not done first cause there is this fantastic illusion;
Federal's marketing claims that because the steel case is so strong, it acts as a "containment vessel" that protects your rifle action from stretching or failing.

While that steel might save your bolt face from melting, it does absolutely nothing to protect your barrel.

The moment that bullet leaves the neck of the case, that 80,000+ psi wall of hyper-velocity fire hits the bare steel of your custom /standard throat.

It doesn't matter if the powder charge is only 43 grains instead of a PRC's 55 grains—spiking that fast powder to proof-load pressures turns the gas into a concentrated plasma torch.

THERE is no barrel made or steel that will last with that....no element or alloy on the periodic table can handle the direct, repeated exposure of an 85,000 psi small-bore powder explosion without rapid degradation.
Click to expand...
How’s the barrel life on these 7mm backcountry? I think there will be a huge difference between a hunter doing the odd 3 shot string a few times per year vs a competition shooter putting 15-20 in a short time frame many times in one weekend. I think we’ll see target shooters sticking to the old ways, but there’s definitely some gains for hunters here.

I didn’t see any benefit in switching to the 7mm backcountry when it came out unless I could run a suppressor because we can get similar performance with a longer barrel in canada, but I can get behind this suped up creedmoor. This made me a believer in this new tech.
 
Bustercluck said:
How’s the barrel life on these 7mm backcountry? I think there will be a huge difference between a hunter doing the odd 3 shot string a few times per year vs a competition shooter putting 15-20 in a short time frame many times in one weekend. I think we’ll see target shooters sticking to the old ways, but there’s definitely some gains for hunters here.

I didn’t see any benefit in switching to the 7mm backcountry when it came out unless I could run a suppressor because we can get similar performance with a longer barrel in canada, but I can get behind this suped up creedmoor. This made me a believer in this new tech.
Click to expand...

Recoil is a big factor for competition. For that reason alone the regular 6.5cm, 6cm, and so many other similar cartridges aren't going anywhere.
 
Suther said:
Have you seen any people talking about barrel life on 7 back country yet? I just did a quick Google search and didn't find any reports from someone who's actually shot out a 7 BC, just people speculating.

Certainly barrels will wear faster with this case tech. That seems painfully obvious. But the specifics I can't say - which has the bigger impact, case capacity or pressure? If this falls between PRC and CM for barrel life it'll be a hit. But if that extra pressure actually causes FASTER wear than a PRC I can't see this getting far.
Click to expand...
latter of the two...not getting far.

look at the numbers;;
Standard 6.5 Creedmoor @ 62,000 psi @
2,500 – 3,000+ rounds @ 1 barrel
versus
Standard 6.5 PRC @ 65,000 psi @ 1,100 – 1,500 rounds @ 1 barrel
versus
Federal +Peak 6.5 Creedmoor @ 80,000 psi @ Estimated under 500 rounds @ 1 barrel..

all of asudden a faster bullet with higher pressure and higher heat ouput if going to be bettween??
What is the magical math and physics used to achieve in between??
NO MAGIC addition to periodic table that I have seen to cope with higher THERMODVNAMICS .

SOMETHING TO LOOK AT...
Federal just dressed up that military technology, stamped "6.5 Creedmoor" on the box, and tried to sell it to regular hunters to squeeze extra profit out of their factory tooling.
 
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adamthebad said:
The physical internal volume of a 6.5 Creedmoor case is small—it can only hold roughly 47 to 48 grains of powder max before it overflows. You physically cannot fit enough standard, slow-burning magnum powder inside a Creedmoor case to reach 6.5 PRC ballistics.
SOOO
The 80,000 to 85,000 psi doesn’t come from packing more powder (my guess; H4350 or H4831SC) into the case. It comes from changing the TYPE of powder and re-engineer the case.to handle it all...

Too bad the barrels were not done first cause there is this fantastic illusion;
Federal's marketing claims that because the steel case is so strong, it acts as a "containment vessel" that protects your rifle action from stretching or failing.

While that steel might save your bolt face from melting, it does absolutely nothing to protect your barrel.

The moment that bullet leaves the neck of the case, that 80,000+ psi wall of hyper-velocity fire hits the bare steel of your custom /standard throat.

It doesn't matter if the powder charge is only 43 grains instead of a PRC's 55 grains—spiking that fast powder to proof-load pressures turns the gas into a concentrated plasma torch.

THERE is no barrel made or steel that will last with that....no element or alloy on the periodic table can handle the direct, repeated exposure of an 85,000 psi small-bore powder explosion without rapid degradation.
Click to expand...
Do you have a background in ^^^ all this you're talking about, or is this just your guess/thoughts, or opinion?
 
I remember watching something about the new Sig Fury and it's High pressure cartridge and thinking to myself.... This is going to change hunting guns in a big way... It's just a matter of time.... Why don't they make a mono steel case like they used to?
Well the big ammo boys didn't want to get left out of the military ammo profits is what I'm thinking now. Case technology is the new edged weapon.... Hopefully optics will have similar advances to help us utilize these things. Cheers
 
adamthebad said:
The physical internal volume of a 6.5 Creedmoor case is small—it can only hold roughly 47 to 48 grains of powder max before it overflows. You physically cannot fit enough standard, slow-burning magnum powder inside a Creedmoor case to reach 6.5 PRC ballistics.
SOOO
The 80,000 to 85,000 psi doesn’t come from packing more powder (my guess; H4350 or H4831SC) into the case. It comes from changing the TYPE of powder and re-engineer the case.to handle it all...

Too bad the barrels were not done first cause there is this fantastic illusion;
Federal's marketing claims that because the steel case is so strong, it acts as a "containment vessel" that protects your rifle action from stretching or failing.

While that steel might save your bolt face from melting, it does absolutely nothing to protect your barrel.

The moment that bullet leaves the neck of the case, that 80,000+ psi wall of hyper-velocity fire hits the bare steel of your custom /standard throat.

It doesn't matter if the powder charge is only 43 grains instead of a PRC's 55 grains—spiking that fast powder to proof-load pressures turns the gas into a concentrated plasma torch.

THERE is no barrel made or steel that will last with that....no element or alloy on the periodic table can handle the direct, repeated exposure of an 85,000 psi small-bore powder explosion without rapid degradation.
Click to expand...
THIS ! Absolutely Correct 👍 throat temp is prob up a few thousand degrees erroding the steel away faster ! Ok for the Guy who only shoots a box of ammo a year 🤷‍♂️🤪
 
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