6.5X55 Swede hot loads?

SIGP2101

SIGP2101

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Does anyone doing it. I have CG63 with heavy barrel but it is still small ring Mauser. Would like to see how fast I can push it and still have reasonable accuracy.
All I have is H4350 and 140 grains bullets. Any suggestions?
 
I don't use H4350 so can't comment on that but most of the people I've talked to say their Swedes prefer loads on the hotter end of the loading range or sometimes even slightly above max for best accuracy.
I have a sporterized, scoped M96 (bought it that way) made in 1900 and use H4831 in it. The load I found has the best accuracy is near max in a normal load range. It's past max for a milsurp action in the manuals I've checked that differentiate milsurp and modern commercial actions. Most of my reading about why there are lower pressure "milsurp" loads for 6.5x55 is because of the Krag rifles used by Norway that had a weaker action. A good condition Swede Mauser should be able to handle max rated pressure and beyond.
 
With an ordinary swede with a long barrel I load 140 grain cheap prvi hunting bullets to 2820, it shoot sub moa. I use a surplus powder, and cannot compare to yours, but I concur that they like to run hot.
 
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and reloading manuals list loads for the weakest link. From what I have read these Swedish Mausers were made of the best steels of that time and proofed at over 60,000 psi.

I do not like loading hot and your brass and rifle will like you better if you load conservatively especially with an older rifle. Below is what our American H.P. White Testing Laboratory has to say on the subject.

Overpressure-boltthrust_zps663146ce.jpg


If I were you I would Google small ring Swedish Mausers and find out what the Swedish military loading chamber pressure was for these rifles were. And check your headspace to see if it is within limits, meaning older and softer grade steels will increase in headspace faster than modern grade steels. As an example the Enfield rifle had replaceable bolt heads and could be made from lower grade/softer steels and still be kept in service. Bottom line, the hotter you load with older firearms the faster the headspace will increase. And checking the headspace on your small ring Mauser will give you peace of mind and an idea of its wear and strength.
 
Lots of useful information guys, THANK you all. It is important to be on the safe side in this game certainly. I have good solid starting points thanks to you.
CG63 being target Frankenstein riffle should she be treated as newer or older rifle that is a question now.

SIGP2101
 
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Speaking of hot loads in the 6.5x55 - my Lyman Manual #47 list a MAX load of 49 grs of H380 with a 120 gr bullet.

This has got to be a misprint. I started at 44 grs, went to 45 grs and had flattened primers. Backed off to 44.2 grs and had an accurate load.

The 49 grs of H380 works great with a 100 gr bullet.
 
i love the 6.5... i have always and only used IMR4831. very accurate and seems velocity is my load is close to 2700(according to books never cronied) there over the listed max for the military specs.. i shoot a sporterized CG M96 also built in 1900.. its not showing signs of presser but im not going to stress the poor thing eather... find a load that accurate and stop there...there is more then enough bullet there to reach out as far as you want.. i shoot 650 yards and have no issues making the dongers sing. find what the rifles like.. do your part and let everything fall in place.


my load is 140gr sierra game king, 46.5gr IMR 4831 NNY brass and a CCi200 primer

Good luck play safe and have fun

Josh
 
The weakest link in the 6.5x55 chain is the Norwegian Krag. The Swedish Mausers will handle quite a bit more pressure than they will, and the more modern sporting rifles like the Ruger 77, Rem 700 etc. will handle more yet. I think that most 6.5 factory ammo is loaded to be safe in the Krag
 
I have a 700 "Classic" in 6.5x55. It is on it's 3rd barrel.

Wore out the factory tube, then a 3 groove Pac-Nor. Now it sports a 1-8 twist Shilen.

All these barrels have preferred "warm" loads, with the 140 at around 2820 and the 125 at just over 3000.

My favorite powders have been RL 22, Norma MRP, [RP-5], WC760 SL10, H414 and Reloder 19.

The 140 partition at just over 2800 is a very fine hunting round, and kills with authority, most often exiting even a moose on a broadside shot.

FWIW, Norma loads their factory ammo right up there, so the "weak action' cautions must be within their liability allowances.

Regards, Dave.
 
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The weak point of any pre-98 Mauser actions is their poor escaping gas handling if a case comes to fail, as none of these actions were designed to exceed more or less than 48 000 PSI, and the 94/96/38 action is no exception. The 98 was created so it can handle much more pressure under any circumstances, as it was designed to handle the then to be new 8X57IS (57 700 PSI).
 
tjsudbury said:
The weakest link in the 6.5x55 chain is the Norwegian Krag. The Swedish Mausers will handle quite a bit more pressure than they will, and the more modern sporting rifles like the Ruger 77, Rem 700 etc. will handle more yet. I think that most 6.5 factory ammo is loaded to be safe in the Krag
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I don't agree. The Norwegian Krag is stronger than the US Krag - it has an additional bolt bearing surface. It is safe with published Swedish Mauser loads.
 
Going through my files I find following:
Military 6.5x55 ammunition was loaded to a pressure of 3200 ATM which converts to 47008 psi.
Proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760 psi and 66,000 psi.
The original m/94 military load featured a 10.1 gram (156 grain) round nosed bullet which achieved 725m/s (2378fps) in the 29" barreled m/96 rifle, 700m/s (2297fps) in the 24" m/38 rifle and 655m/s (2149fps) in the original 18.5" m/94 carbine.
The first pointed bullets were tested between 1910 and 1920 in experimental rifles, the final load appeared in the M/41 sniper rifle and used a 9 gram (139 grain) pointed bullet. This load quickly proved itself superior to the former and in 1944, the 9 gram load replaced all of the previous M94 designated ammunition.
The M/41 load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel, 768 m/s (2519fps) in the 24" m/38 barrel and 730 m/s (2395fps) in the18.5" M/94.
Many Swedish rifles still bare a brass disc on the butt which helps tell the user which ammunition the rifle was sighted in for, its zero - and the condition of the bore since its last inspection.
For many years, Norma produced two loads for the 6.5x55, the 139 grain Vulcan at 2850fps (29" barrel) and the 156 grain Alaska at 2559fps.
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Was hoping that someone will have first hand experience with H4350 to share but since not I will have to start where the book said I should. What I have is:

29" barrel
139 grain PP pointed
all kinds of brass
powder H4350

I would like to reload to Norma specs for 139 grain type of bullet using what I have in hand. It seams to be quite possible. Hopefully accuracy will be right there as well.
 
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SIGP2101 said:
Going through my files I find following:


I would like to reload to Norma specs for 140 grain type of bullet using what I have in hand. Was hoping that someone will have first hand experiance with H4350 to share but since not I will have to start where the book said I should.
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Norma achieves their top performance with the 139/140/156 grain bullets using Norma MRP, a powder in the H4831 range, so the H4350 may be a tad fast to get top velocities with the heavies.

I would think it might be optimum with the 120 - 130 grain pills. I have not used it, so am unable to make a dogmatic comment. :)

Regards, Dave
 
Hodgdon manual calls for:
140 GR. SP, H4350, min 39.5 grains for speed of 2418fps, pressure 38,600 CUP, and max charge of 44.0 grains of powder for speed of 2617 fps and pressure of 45,700 CUP.
So their max load for H4350 puts me on par with the M/41 original military load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel. This is encouraging because at this point pressure doesn't seems to be overly excessive. Should I back up 1% from max and start build from there?
 
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Ive been loading 140 vlds over 45gr of H4350 but its a modern tikka action and I worked up to that. I certainly would not recommend that as a starting point.
 
So my 2820 fps load with the 140 is inside Norma's load, and I am using their powder. There are so many great loads for the "modest" cartridges, as the writers call them. with a 6.5x55 with bullets from 100-160 grain, and a 7x57 with bullets from 120-175 grain, you can hunt most north american animals at considerable range. The 200 fps better you can do with a 270 is not very important. I have seen them both park a moose easily.
 
I started at 40gr of H4350 and load up in groups of three in increments of 0.5gr each group all the way up to 45.5gr. With this I am 1.5Gr over max with last group of three.
Haven't shoot them yet, waiting for time slot combined with good weather.
So I worked in increments of 0.5gr, should I have done smaller increments as I approached/going over max suggested loads? I know it would be safer but that would be lots of reloading and shooting.
 
SIGP2101 said:
Does anyone doing it. I have CG63 with heavy barrel but it is still small ring Mauser. Would like to see how fast I can push it and still have reasonable accuracy.
All I have is H4350 and 140 grains bullets. Any suggestions?
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I use IMR 4350 and on the burn rate chart H 4350 is right there beside it. I use 40gr of IMR 4350 with Hornady 140gr SP to good effect, MOA or better. I was shooting with 42gr. In my experience I wasn't getting any better accuracy with 42gr so I backed it off to 40gr. Max listed is 44gr. and PSI is 45,700 and velocity around 2617.
 
Baribal said:
The weak point of any pre-98 Mauser actions is their poor escaping gas handling if a case comes to fail, as none of these actions were designed to exceed more or less than 48 000 PSI, and the 94/96/38 action is no exception. The 98 was created so it can handle much more pressure under any circumstances, as it was designed to handle the then to be new 8X57IS (57 700 PSI).
Click to expand...

What happens if a case comes to fail in a Swedish Mauser (including the CG63)? What are safe loads for the Swedish Mauser?
 
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