68gr (or so) .224 projectiles

Well the 40 grain sucks lol.

But lets take a look at that 68 grain match again. In this case, as per Hornady's website, they have it going 100 FPS slower from a 24" barrel. 2960.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/223-remington-68-gr-bthp-match-frontier#!/

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You said that bullet can hit 3050 fps. Alright, fair enough.

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Not too shabby at all. What about the 75gr Superformance load?

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/5-56-nato-75-gr-bthp-superformance-match#!/

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Now how about that 53 grain Vmax?

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/223-rem-53-gr-v-max-superformance#!/

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Oh, dear!

With the Nosler 53gr Varmageddon, we can bump the BC up to .303 and lets be conservative again, the Nosler manual lists 3550 fps with a full load of Benchmark from a 24" test barrel but I'll take 150 fps off of that and use 3400. Just to keep it sporting.

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Well, now.

The heavier bullets get spanked out to 500 yards.

My own experience is very much in line with this. As I said earlier, I shoot barrels shorter than 24" so the numbers were a bit worse. But the 53 grain bullets were consistently better, to the tune of about 5 to 8 inches depending on the range.
 
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Joel said:
The heavier bullets get spanked out to 500 yards.

My own experience is very much in line with this.
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Joel, you may want to consider the history of these heavier bullets that are available in .224 to begin with.
In the 70's and 80's when first the US Armed Forces transitioned from the M-14 to the M16 in their competitive Service Rifle shooting, and then civilian counterparts chosing to do similar in using the AR-15 in NRA Fullbore, both of which are done from 100 to 600 yards, they were early pioneers with the R&D for the heavier bullets. They did this because they performed better at distance than the lighter bullets. The heavier .224 bullets owe their existence to these pioneers and would not have been developed in the first instance if they did not out perform the lighter rounds. Full stop.

Now, one could argue that target shooting at paper is quite different than hunting, and I would totally agree.
The fact the 77gr. Sierra Match King, which started out as a target round, performs so well on flesh targets is proven by the move of militaries and police tactical units to go from rounds that carry 62. FMJ to loads like the Mk262 mod(s) and similar loads with 77gr. and similar OTM bullets. For the most part their use is currently restricted to top tier military formations and police tactical units due to the higher ammunition costs, but their use by these units is proof of their superior performance.

It is possible and quite likely you are not seeing the performance gains for a variety of reasons, but that does not mean they are there and they are tangible.
 
Beltfed,

I wholeheartedly agree...varmint bullets are not a good choice for special operations.

The OP wants to kill little furry things though. And the math is clear, the 53 grain bullets mentioned above do a better job of that with less compensation needed. We can load ammo to Mk262 spec and as shown above, it doesn't shoot flatter within 500 yards. beyond that range, the superior qualities of the heavier bullets shine through for sure. But you have to get that far out first.

If the Richardson's Ground Squirrel is at 600 yards, behind some auto glass or other barrier, etc then I'd suggest the heavier bullet too.
 
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People still care about +\-10" of trajectory at 500? We have rangefinders now, right? ��

Just razzing you, Joel. All in good fun. But seriously, don't leave the wind inputs blank. Add in a 10-15MPH full value wind, then you'll see the true value of heavy, high BC projectiles.
 
LittleBoyLefty said:
People still care about +\-10" of trajectory at 500? We have rangefinders now, right? ��

Just razzing you, Joel. All in good fun. But seriously, don't leave the wind inputs blank. Add in a 10-15MPH full value wind, then you'll see the true value of heavy, high BC projectiles.
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;)

For a 10mph crosswind...

The 68 grain at 2950 FPS beats the 53 grain Vmax at 3400 FPS by about 1.5 inches at 400 and 2.5 inches at 500 yards, it turns out. I will admit I am surprised about that.

The Varmageddon beats it, though. By a bit skinner of a margin but it beats it.

The 75gr match beats the Varmageddon in turn by about the same margin lol. 2 inches or so at 500 yards. IF you can get it to 2900 plus FPS.

I will admit on that one I am surprised...but it is awfully close. My 20" barrel 75gr loads were more like 2650 fps. I shoulda used Superformance!
 
There are heavy .224 projectiles with far better numbers than the 68/75 grain match. Try the 75ELD? It'll shoot out of many 9 twist barrels, and easily tops 2900 in even my 22" 223.

Always interesting to see the numbers. Even funner to shoot them, I've shot in high winds with 75s and 55s side by side. Big difference in hit/miss ratios!
 
Hot dang, at that length I would have figured it was a no go from the 1/9. That I have to try!

Still not as flat shooting, but it does buck the wind better.

And there is no substitute for burning power and finding out, for sure! I know what you mean about getting out there in the wind too...Was having a hell of a time reaching across a frozen pond last year with the 223 here.

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I was shooting some Hornady 75 gr Match bullets today from Savage bolt action 1:9 24" Average velocity was 3050. No signs of pressure, but that was more velocity than I wanted. I will try a 1/2 gr less powder (BLC2).

If I wanted high velocity, I would use RL15. That is what I use for 80 gr bullets out of my target rifle. 3,000 fps. (30" barrel)

That 53 bullet looks like a good short range varmint bullet.
 
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Taking note of that here, Ganderite! Maybe next time I have the 223 out I will try the 75 or 73gr ELD and some RL15 and see what gets going!
 
rick357 said:
Actually the other way around, heavier bullets require faster twist. 68gr should work just fine. The HRN 68gr BTHP are pretty decent for the price and the OP already stated they work. Even better but at increased $ would be Sierra 69gr MK.
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I use the Sierra 69gr up to 200 yards for my Savage 1 to 9 and it seems perfect with nice results
 
silverfoxdj said:
I use the Sierra 69gr up to 200 yards for my Savage 1 to 9 and it seems perfect with nice results
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The 69gr SMK work almost like laser beams up to 500m which is the longest I have access to shoot. I have tried the TMK and they don't seem to do any better, nor any worse, at up to 500m, but they cost more so . . .

Another bullet I was surprised with when I tested it is the 69gr Barnes Match Burner. I shot 5 rounds of SMK then 5 rounds BMB back and forth for 50 rounds at 2 targets side by side. The 25 SMK ended up at 0.48MOA and the 25 BMB at just over 0.50MOA. 300m. PPU brass, 24.7gr H-4895. 3045 fps, ES24, SD11.7.

I am not as thrilled with the 68gr HRN Match BTHP. It works ok but the best I can seem to do with it consistently under similar shooting conditions is around 0.72MOA. That's ok I guess but not when I know I can personally do better. I shoot to compete against myself. I always want to do the absolute best I can.

I have been testing the 75gr HRN ELD-M and I am zeroing in on a seating depth and powder charge but it has been a slow process. They are at the edge of being unstable in the 1:9 twist. Yes, I know I can change out the barrel to a faster twist but that isn't what I am trying to do. I will eventually find the proper parameters and I will have a pile of fun doing it!

edit --> Someone above mentioned the 73gr ELD-M. I haven't been able to find them - yet. They might just be perfection for maximum weight and performance with the 1:9 twist. I'll be looking around for some next.
 
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Thanks, but sorry, I should have mentioned "find some locally". I like to find at least 2 and preferably 3 boxes of 100 to give me a reasonable number for the load and accuracy testing I do. I don't like paying to ship such a small amount, at really makes them expensive. Once I find something I like, I go for a 'bulk' order where the shipping cost amortized over the number of bullets makes a lot more sense.
 
Ah, no worries! I understand. Would have to be really cheap to make up for buying a sample, indeed.
 
So, what's the latest preference in a 69 grain or heavier target bullet? My gun likes 69 smk and 75 Hornady's. If you have a suggestion and source, it would be appreciated.
 
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Grizzlypeg said:
So, what's the latest preference in a 69 grain or heavier target bullet? My gun likes 69 smk and 75 Hornady's. If you have a suggestion and source, it would be appreciated.
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I have been shooting 69 grain Sierra Match kings in my 1:9 Palma gun for years and cannot even think of using anything else.
I have shot the light weight bullets as wwell just too check them , and used some 55 grain Varminters and 53 TNT's when I was planning on using it as a stand rifle for coyotes, but the 699's rule right out to 1K.
I don't make a habit of shooting that rifle past 700 because I have better rifles for the longer distances, but the mouse gun will step up if I am in the zone and can dope the wind properly......

Cat
 
iron cat said:
I have been shooting 69 grain Sierra Match kings in my 1:9 Palma gun for years and cannot even think of using anything else.
I have shot the light weight bullets as wwell just too check them , and used some 55 grain Varminters and 53 TNT's when I was planning on using it as a stand rifle for coyotes, but the 699's rule right out to 1K.
I don't make a habit of shooting that rifle past 700 because I have better rifles for the longer distances, but the mouse gun will step up if I am in the zone and can dope the wind properly......

Cat
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That's good because I just found an unopened box of 500 in my reloading closet.
 
I used to do some work with Savage. I was pushing them to change the 223 from a 1;12 to a 1:8, so it would shoot the heavier bullets (with a chamber throat change, too). I was also pushing them to re-introduce a single shot rifle, so it could have a bigger bedding surface.

They relented and made up 20 prototypes for me to try out. But they decided that 1:9 was as fast as they would go with the twist. I tried these in the winter (dense air -worst case) with the Sierra 80 gr match VLD bullet. They were stable if the velocity was kept up.

I shot this bullet back to 1000 yards and found it had a bit less drift than a 30 cal 155 gr match bullet.

If you have a 1:9 rifle, the bullet makers make 75 and 77 gr bullets that will stabilize just fine. These bullets deliver accuracy with less wind drift that the 69 gr match bullets.

As for the Sierra v Hornady (69 v 68gr), the Hornady has a thicker jacket and does best in mediocre quality barrels. I use the Hornadys in AR rifles and Sierra in bolt rifles.
 
Ganderite said:
I used to do some work with Savage. I was pushing them to change the 223 from a 1;12 to a 1:8, so it would shoot the heavier bullets (with a chamber throat change, too). I was also pushing them to re-introduce a single shot rifle, so it could have a bigger bedding surface.

They relented and made up 20 prototypes for me to try out. But they decided that 1:9 was as fast as they would go with the twist. I tried these in the winter (dense air -worst case) with the Sierra 80 gr match VLD bullet. They were stable if the velocity was kept up.

I shot this bullet back to 1000 yards and found it had a bit less drift than a 30 cal 155 gr match bullet.

If you have a 1:9 rifle, the bullet makers make 75 and 77 gr bullets that will stabilize just fine. These bullets deliver accuracy with less wind drift that the 69 gr match bullets.

As for the Sierra v Hornady (69 v 68gr), the Hornady has a thicker jacket and does best in mediocre quality barrels. I use the Hornadys in AR rifles and Sierra in bolt rifles.
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I have owned quite a few mouse guns in the past , but the one I still have and use is one of the limited run , long actioned Savage BT112's that were brought in to Canada by a certain CGN member in the early 70's
This guy has forgotten more about long range shooting and ballistics and put more lead down a fullbore range than most of us will ever learn or do:cool:
edit: maybe I'll try some off those big long 75 grain bullets just to try them out!
Cat
 
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