6br?
- Thread starter hammerz75
- Start date
What could have been a quality thread on how to get the 6mmbr family of cartridges to feed in a repeater, which a lot of people would like to know, was instead sidelined by someone who has never shot the discipline telling us what cartridges we should be using.
So yes, I have a lot of passion around this. I'm tired of people who have never shot PRS trying to give advice on it. A lot of the advice is bad or misleading, and it makes our community worse off.
Put a carbonsix .223 barrel, mystic bipod and a Sightron or Athlon scope on your rem 783, and come out and show us how it's done. You clearly have a lot to teach us.
So yes, I have a lot of passion around this. I'm tired of people who have never shot PRS trying to give advice on it. A lot of the advice is bad or misleading, and it makes our community worse off.
Put a carbonsix .223 barrel, mystic bipod and a Sightron or Athlon scope on your rem 783, and come out and show us how it's done. You clearly have a lot to teach us.
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Hey kt, don't worry too much about Jerry- this precise devolution has been happening again and again for years. To be sure, Jerry has forgotten more than lots of folks learn in the hobby- he's been at it for a long time. At a certain point, it becomes (his) standard entertainment to put some gas on a conversation and start flicking matches. Some folks bite, lots of others just grab the popcorn.
It goes like this:
"Hey I need some help picking a caliber"
"Well everyone is using 6mm and 6.5mm and I can sell you the barrel and bullets"
"Great, that's really good information"
"But you should shoot a .223"
"Why a .223? That's not 6mm or 6.5mm"
"I know, but it doesn't recoil"
"But what about the wind?"
"Oh ya, it blows, but when it doesn't a .223 is the way to go"
"So what should I get again?"
"Whatever you want, and I have barrels in stock... but shoot .223, everyone's tried it and failed, but trust me it's the way of the future"
Keep in mind that there's an intersection of advice and business marketing inherent to these forums, and that's just part of the game.
When folks hear the accurate advice of "pick whatever caliber you want and shoot out three barrels with it and you'll be really really good" it just doesn't sell well.
Hearing "You need a caliber that's been around for 30 years but recently renamed, made with Swedish brass processed in Finland, re-blessed with white gloves in the US; resize it three times before firing, load it with the shiniest most expensive bullets you can buy over 46.5 grains of unicorn farts weighed on a scale that costs enough to get you divorced" just seems to be so much more digestible. Nobody likes hearing getting good takes time and effort.
It goes like this:
"Hey I need some help picking a caliber"
"Well everyone is using 6mm and 6.5mm and I can sell you the barrel and bullets"
"Great, that's really good information"
"But you should shoot a .223"
"Why a .223? That's not 6mm or 6.5mm"
"I know, but it doesn't recoil"
"But what about the wind?"
"Oh ya, it blows, but when it doesn't a .223 is the way to go"
"So what should I get again?"
"Whatever you want, and I have barrels in stock... but shoot .223, everyone's tried it and failed, but trust me it's the way of the future"
Keep in mind that there's an intersection of advice and business marketing inherent to these forums, and that's just part of the game.
When folks hear the accurate advice of "pick whatever caliber you want and shoot out three barrels with it and you'll be really really good" it just doesn't sell well.
Hearing "You need a caliber that's been around for 30 years but recently renamed, made with Swedish brass processed in Finland, re-blessed with white gloves in the US; resize it three times before firing, load it with the shiniest most expensive bullets you can buy over 46.5 grains of unicorn farts weighed on a scale that costs enough to get you divorced" just seems to be so much more digestible. Nobody likes hearing getting good takes time and effort.
where would one source the bottom metal and clips that would fit a Rem. 700 SA that would be suitable for the Br or Dasher ?
this has been an interesting thread, even with Jerry's unwanted , off topic input, straight up 223 I don't think so, put it into a 22 Br or a 22 Dasher case , well then that's a matter of how good you read conditions
this has been an interesting thread, even with Jerry's unwanted , off topic input, straight up 223 I don't think so, put it into a 22 Br or a 22 Dasher case , well then that's a matter of how good you read conditions
Any bottom metal that accepts the AICS will be a good option. I have rifles with Badger M5 and Surgeon DBM, both work good.
For AICS magazines, there are spacer kits available from Primal Rights and Patriot Valley Arms designed for running the 6br's and dashers in an AICS. Some people are even having no issues running a straight up AICS with no spacer kits (2017 PRS #1 shooter ran a dasher with no spacer kits with AICS magazines through a Surgeon action).
The Magpul AICS magazine is supposed to be very tolerant of many cartridges, including the 6br/dasher family - no spacer kit required. So these are another option.
Since I currently reside in the USA, I bought my spacer kit straight from PVA. I believe Gary at Bighorn can bring in the spacer kits, but that would need to be confirmed.
I have started down the road of my own 6br type cartridge project, building a rifle off of a TL3 action (for the gf), and getting a barrel spun up for my older gen Defiance Deviant action. I have purchased an AICS spacer kit from PVA for my AI mags, and I also have a Magpul AICS mag to try out as well. I've done a lot of research to get to this point, but there will be more learnings as I get closer to getting these rifles built. Just waiting on my reamer now.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Post made me smile....
I am not recommending the 223 for this... see previous posts. But if the goal is 6BR performance and lowest recoil possible, then the 223 is the ballistic twin, less recoil with easy set up. Might not be what the cool kids use but it is the same thing....Funny, how that seems like such a difficult concept to understand.
At any rate, when someone needs to start throwing around personal attacks to prove their point, their debate is done and pointless to continue.
I hope that those with the PRS experience will start posting info on Stage prep and Strategy. Offer some info on how to address the various props and barricades.
Then we can all get out and do more practise.... cause that is what will improve scores.
Jerry
Want to know how to learn this? By going out and shooting comps. Everyone is built differently, and there are many different ways to tackle an obstacle/barricade/prop. Everyones body size is different, strength and flexibility is different, gear is different.
The only real way to learn is to go shoot comps and work out for yourself what works for you and your system. Watch what other shooters do, and practice with different methods. No two people shoot a stage the exact same way. Someone talking about it on the internet is not going to help anyone at all.
Thanks for the sidetrack again.
Last place at the match still beats 13,000+ posts on the forum, or however the old adage goes...
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thanks for the info, I am familiar with both these cartridge but in single shot target rifles, interested in the PRS game and only have one repeating bolt gun I could use ... a blueprinted Rem 700 SA
I will talk to Gary as I have dealt with him before
G
I will talk to Gary as I have dealt with him before
G
You may need to get a gunsmith to do some tweaking on the extractor, but you won't know until you try it. My understanding is that the extraction is the biggest potential hurdle.
There are people who have rem 700 repeaters using the 6br cartridges fine, high power shooters have been doing this for a while. Definitely do-able.
There are people who have rem 700 repeaters using the 6br cartridges fine, high power shooters have been doing this for a while. Definitely do-able.
Just to add in the reality check:
Folks have been trying to run the 6br in a repeater for a long time- for clarity, the results are marginal at best. Some have better luck than others. Many wind up scrapping the attempt. The variety of issues runs across the spectrum from feeding to ejection. Over on accurateshooter there are miles of threads on the topic. Be sure to consider the amount of effort (time and dollars) it may take to find success.
In my experience, I've successfully tried the 6br on the Tikka 595, and will be trying it with AICS modified mags on a Tikka T3. The extractor/ ejector design on these actions works reliably ejecting the case. Feeding on the 595 with factory 22/250 magazines is alright for four rounds, and 50/50 for five. Again, the case was not designed by someone shooting a repeater. The AICS follower mods are available and look to be quite successful for feeding reliability. Be sure to research ejection though. Some actions are not designed to handle such a shorty case. Again, proper tool for the job.
If one was looking for 6BR performance (barrel life included), there are other (less expensive) ways to achieve this. Both 6x47L and 6mm Creedmoor can be downloaded to 6BR velocities and as long as one stays away from H4350, your barrel life will last a similar amount of time. Consumables are available and the cost delta is negligible in the scheme of things. Brass will last forever. With these cases, you get a system that just works. The most difficult part is resisting the urge to put the pedal to the metal in the cartridge. There's nothing magic about the BR except that there's a finite amount of volume in the case to fill with powder compared to the hole diameter in the top. Lots of folks have burned out 6BR barrels in 2k rounds too, so stay skeptical when you've figured you just discovered a better way to build a wheel.
Folks have been trying to run the 6br in a repeater for a long time- for clarity, the results are marginal at best. Some have better luck than others. Many wind up scrapping the attempt. The variety of issues runs across the spectrum from feeding to ejection. Over on accurateshooter there are miles of threads on the topic. Be sure to consider the amount of effort (time and dollars) it may take to find success.
In my experience, I've successfully tried the 6br on the Tikka 595, and will be trying it with AICS modified mags on a Tikka T3. The extractor/ ejector design on these actions works reliably ejecting the case. Feeding on the 595 with factory 22/250 magazines is alright for four rounds, and 50/50 for five. Again, the case was not designed by someone shooting a repeater. The AICS follower mods are available and look to be quite successful for feeding reliability. Be sure to research ejection though. Some actions are not designed to handle such a shorty case. Again, proper tool for the job.
If one was looking for 6BR performance (barrel life included), there are other (less expensive) ways to achieve this. Both 6x47L and 6mm Creedmoor can be downloaded to 6BR velocities and as long as one stays away from H4350, your barrel life will last a similar amount of time. Consumables are available and the cost delta is negligible in the scheme of things. Brass will last forever. With these cases, you get a system that just works. The most difficult part is resisting the urge to put the pedal to the metal in the cartridge. There's nothing magic about the BR except that there's a finite amount of volume in the case to fill with powder compared to the hole diameter in the top. Lots of folks have burned out 6BR barrels in 2k rounds too, so stay skeptical when you've figured you just discovered a better way to build a wheel.
Sako style and mini 16 style extractors are working from what I have been reading. If the extractor claw on the mini-16 is clipped you may need to replace it with one that is not clipped. My knowledge on this exact part is somewhat limited, I am leaning on my research and others experience. I'm expecting the TL3 action to feed and extract just fine, but there may be some small tweaking on the Defiance. I'll know more in the coming weeks and months.
To max-x's point, there are cartridges that are certainly more "plug and play" than the 6br family. All depends on what you want to achieve. Lots of good 6mm options available.
It may or may not be worth the challenge, lots of people are finding success using the right equipment. There is more equipment available now that is geared towards running the 6br/dasher, than there ever has. It's not as challenging as it once was.
For me, I am going with a 6br style cartridge for the following reasons: minimal recoil, barrel life and incredible ease of load development. The ease of load development is insane with these cartridges. From what I have seen, it's very easy to get an accurate load with single digit ES's (5 fps or less is not uncommon). It's not as finicky as the higher volume 6mm's, which you have to tune over the life of the barrel. That, and I know that I will be able to get it to work. With the equipment and information we have now, it's not the nearly insurmountable challenge that it once was.
It makes sense for me and the role I want it to play. Others may prefer 6mm Creedmoor, 6CM, 6XC, etc., which is fine to. Understand your goals, and the pro's and con's of each cartridge before you jump in. I did a whole LOT of research before I finally settled on a 6mm cartridge, there are a lot of good options.
It may or may not be worth the challenge, lots of people are finding success using the right equipment. There is more equipment available now that is geared towards running the 6br/dasher, than there ever has. It's not as challenging as it once was.
For me, I am going with a 6br style cartridge for the following reasons: minimal recoil, barrel life and incredible ease of load development. The ease of load development is insane with these cartridges. From what I have seen, it's very easy to get an accurate load with single digit ES's (5 fps or less is not uncommon). It's not as finicky as the higher volume 6mm's, which you have to tune over the life of the barrel. That, and I know that I will be able to get it to work. With the equipment and information we have now, it's not the nearly insurmountable challenge that it once was.
It makes sense for me and the role I want it to play. Others may prefer 6mm Creedmoor, 6CM, 6XC, etc., which is fine to. Understand your goals, and the pro's and con's of each cartridge before you jump in. I did a whole LOT of research before I finally settled on a 6mm cartridge, there are a lot of good options.
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I agree, having both cartridges and shooting both at 1000 yrds, I myself believe the extra barrel wear to fireform the Dasher, and the little increase in velocity of the Dasher is not worth it in my mind, on ballistic programs... sure
The Br is a wonderful cartridge in its own, a bad read with any cartridge is not gonna end well, the Dasher will give you that news slightly faster
The Br is a wonderful cartridge in its own, a bad read with any cartridge is not gonna end well, the Dasher will give you that news slightly faster
I''' add one more ( almost heretic ) comment and that is this: if you want 100% reliable feeding, dirt cheap components and the ability to push a nice little (or heavy 115g ) 6mm fast then since the 1950's ( 1955 I think ) we have an answer:- the .243 - 115 DTACs at around 300 FPS will ride wind and have some terminal impact for sure. Of course, the big downside is barrel life but....
lol I agree.... in the shooting world .... barrels are considered consumables are they not
G
G
Shelldrake
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Extraction is never a problem, ejection is where the real hard to fix problem is.
Extraction works fine until the front of the case neck clears the chamber and then rides the bolt channel. The tendency then is that the extractor looses its grip of the casing before it reaches the ejection port and just sits in the action. Savage Actions tend to have this more than others.
I have a rebarreled 6BR Tikka 595. I don't even plan to use the mag because its a benchrest caliber in a benchrest gun.
Instead, I bought a *BobSled* single shot adapter, which is really nice btw.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
