I'll post a few more later..
Actually my hats off to you & the other CGNers for making this thread persevere.
7.62mm DCRA LE No4 conversion thread
- Thread starter Airborn_69
- Start date
Actually my hats off to you & the other CGNers for making this thread persevere.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
So you're telling me shooter's personalized them with what worked for them? Be it any number of sights (front & rear), numerous bedding techniques, restocking, 7.62 mags, slings, extractors and ejectors, etc etc. Who would have thought? RSAF Enfield even designed and produced their own version of a 7.62 mag for target shooters, heck they even allowed them to complete with these altered rifles, and yet here we are and people are calling it not right...
Where is the line for purists then? Seems like a bit of a double standard. Yes they were intended for target shooting, so target sights seems allowable. Yet Heaven forbid anyone take it a step further, even the Enfield factory seems to have over stepped it's bounds on this one. To think how many actual DCRA shooters back in the day "bubba'd" their own rifles. The horror!
I'd like to see everyone put back on the CMkIII's now!
Well,
My understanding is:
There were basically 2 classes, Service Rifle "A" (SRa) and Service Rifle "B" (SRb).
SR(a) As issued: issue sights, trigger pull weight, stocks & bedding
SR(b) Designated acceptable: aftermarket target sights, trigger pull weight, specified bedding variations & stock patterns
It is important to note that the SR(a) & SR(b) type classes go back to well before WWI ~ that is where the Canadian Sutherland, the British BSA & Parker sights come from.
That it was active between the wars is shown by the proliferation of assorted sights such as Motty, Central ect which came out of Australia.
Also there were variations within the Commonwealth, my understanding is that use of the Australian "H" SMLE in the UK would result in perminant barring from British Isle competition ....
After the rules changed, a lot of rifles were extensively altered.
If a person wants a No. 4 target rifle, as originally used, fine.
If a rifle was altered in its period of use, rebarrelled, restocked, one piece stocked, that's how it was used.
If someone takes a surviving unaltered rifle in its original SR(a) or (b) condition, drills and taps it, cuts down the stock to make it handier for hunting, whatever, that's bubbawork.
If someone needs a repeater, and wants to install a 7.62 magazine, without altering the rifle, no harm has been done.
Sooner or later someone is going to proudly show off the forend rails, camo paint and M4 stock they have added to improve their rifle.
If a person wants a No. 4 target rifle, as originally used, fine.
If a rifle was altered in its period of use, rebarrelled, restocked, one piece stocked, that's how it was used.
If someone takes a surviving unaltered rifle in its original SR(a) or (b) condition, drills and taps it, cuts down the stock to make it handier for hunting, whatever, that's bubbawork.
If someone needs a repeater, and wants to install a 7.62 magazine, without altering the rifle, no harm has been done.
Sooner or later someone is going to proudly show off the forend rails, camo paint and M4 stock they have added to improve their rifle.
#644 - Laminated
A few photos of #644. This is the rifle that has screws from the butt socket into the forestock. This gives an indication of what to look for if you have a forestock that won't budge.
The wood is laminated and a beautiful dark red color. Also, please note the laminated stock set number (109). Sorry that it was not degreased for the photo.
This rifle came to the US following the 1967 Palma, and has a hanging Canadian repair tag that states: "McCoy, can you make this ruddy MK 4 shoot?' Signed "Shook" (Elmer Shook) The answer: "Please clean the spout!" "Ha - $1.00" How is that for a friendly insult?
A few photos of #644. This is the rifle that has screws from the butt socket into the forestock. This gives an indication of what to look for if you have a forestock that won't budge.
The wood is laminated and a beautiful dark red color. Also, please note the laminated stock set number (109). Sorry that it was not degreased for the photo.
This rifle came to the US following the 1967 Palma, and has a hanging Canadian repair tag that states: "McCoy, can you make this ruddy MK 4 shoot?' Signed "Shook" (Elmer Shook) The answer: "Please clean the spout!" "Ha - $1.00" How is that for a friendly insult?
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
sNiP....
The wood is laminated and a beautiful dark red color. Also, please note the laminated stock set number (109). Sorry that it was not degreased for the photo.
SnIp....
Interesting that the butt stock shows the contour of the CAL post-war stocks rather than the war-time SAL contour.
I had understood the "german" style laminate to be a war-time/early postwar trials project.
Does your butt stock show any inspection markings?
Laminate stock set & #1431
Col. Bill Strachan had a number of laminated stock sets made in the '50's and shipped to Montreal. Not close to my notes, so have no numbers or dates. Also forgot to look for markings, but will when time allows.
I would consider this wood to be post war.
Here is a photo of oval C conversion #1431. This rifle was purchased originally from Col. Strachan and later converted to target rifle configuration by, I think, George Arnold of the UK. The fellow that owned this rifle for many years is here now and I will ask.
I know of only six oval C marked conversions, but suspect more are out there. Recently I saw many beautiful photos of an oval C marked .303 on the Canadian Milsurps Board and was surprized. For many years I thought the oval C marking was used on the conversions only. The .303 rifle did not bear the 5G marking in an electric penciled square as did the 7.62 conversions.
We may never know the true meaning of the oval C marking. We may never know the true meaning of the 5G in electric pencil either, but we can sure speculate.
Col. Bill Strachan had a number of laminated stock sets made in the '50's and shipped to Montreal. Not close to my notes, so have no numbers or dates. Also forgot to look for markings, but will when time allows.
I would consider this wood to be post war.
Here is a photo of oval C conversion #1431. This rifle was purchased originally from Col. Strachan and later converted to target rifle configuration by, I think, George Arnold of the UK. The fellow that owned this rifle for many years is here now and I will ask.
I know of only six oval C marked conversions, but suspect more are out there. Recently I saw many beautiful photos of an oval C marked .303 on the Canadian Milsurps Board and was surprized. For many years I thought the oval C marking was used on the conversions only. The .303 rifle did not bear the 5G marking in an electric penciled square as did the 7.62 conversions.
We may never know the true meaning of the oval C marking. We may never know the true meaning of the 5G in electric pencil either, but we can sure speculate.
The 1949 DCRA "©onnaught" rifle displayed in the Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Libraryhttp://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10 is .303 and is marked with the recognized electro pencil 5G ......
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
1949 C No.4 Mk1* Long Branch Rifle (click here)
"All Matching Serial Numbers (Early "C Circle" DCRA Rifle)"
Regards,
Badger
Edit: put correct pic up....
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Thanks for setting me straight on the 5G marking, Badger. That is a beautiful rifle!
Just checked the laminated butt and forestock on #644. The forestock bears #109 in large letters and a small C with an A inside. The butt has an oval (oblong) stamp, but the marking inside is not clear. I believe the smaller stamp on the forestock is barely visible about one inch above the number in a prior photo.
Just checked the laminated butt and forestock on #644. The forestock bears #109 in large letters and a small C with an A inside. The butt has an oval (oblong) stamp, but the marking inside is not clear. I believe the smaller stamp on the forestock is barely visible about one inch above the number in a prior photo.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
The 2 DCRAs I got out of the Edmonton Garrison were:
Savage #108 ~ 37C###x IIRC a No4Mki/3?
Long Branch #1692 81L###x No4MkI*
Both long since gone.
In retrospect I probably should have kept #108 as an early example.
Savage #108 ~ 37C###x IIRC a No4Mki/3?
Long Branch #1692 81L###x No4MkI*
Both long since gone.
In retrospect I probably should have kept #108 as an early example.
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The one I saw at the show years back has seen its days..
Check Item # 11762 on the Joe salter web site.He has a very nice 1955 DCRA 308 conversion # 979.Now that is a rare combination!
If it was in canada it would be mine.
To bad he dosen't try a sell some of this stuff up here before he ships it south of the border.I would have no problem paying $1200.00 for something unusual like that.
If it was in canada it would be mine.
To bad he dosen't try a sell some of this stuff up here before he ships it south of the border.I would have no problem paying $1200.00 for something unusual like that.
Was that your doing, drilling & tapping the reciever???
I had one years ago, marked "Parker Hale Birmingham" on the receiver ring. Probably PH bought up the left over actions etc. when Fazakerly production ended, before all the tooling etc. was sold to Pakistan Ordnance Factories.
Don't have the conversion number unfortunately.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
I just got home after a long winter, and can now add my DCRA number to the list. It is conversion number 1369 done on a British receiver in the KA255XX serial number range. It has a PH5C rear sight along with a Sterling mag, both of which were add-ons by me. It came with one of the front sight covers, and overall has minty light colored wood with no blemishes, as would be expected on a target rifle.
Somewhere on this desk of mine I have an original conversion tag from Cdn arsenals for one of these rifles. It was for a unfired barrelled receiver I had traded away a number of years ago. When I find it, if it matches anyone's posted conversion number, I will forward it to him.
Somewhere on this desk of mine I have an original conversion tag from Cdn arsenals for one of these rifles. It was for a unfired barrelled receiver I had traded away a number of years ago. When I find it, if it matches anyone's posted conversion number, I will forward it to him.
