7.62x25mm long-arms
- Thread starter cyclone
- Start date
Way more to it than just reaming out the chamber.
From the video description:
Fella's first language is definitely not English, but I get the gist of what he was saying there. Move the gas vent closer to the chamber, shorten the op rod assembly, shorten the lock time of the bolt.
Those are not small changes, and not to be taken on by someone who isn't extremely confident in their skills.
This thread has re-kindled my M1 carbine 7.62 X 25 project. I bought a TT33 mag + 70 rds of Russkie TOK yesterday.
This mag fits into a 15-rd M1 carbine mag almost perfectly.
I looked at Herr Werle's video, and one should check out his other stuff. www.waffen-werle.de Exotic Lugers and Garand creations. The guy is a highly skilled and creative gunsmith. However, I don't quite agree with the need to shorten up the slide and relocate the gas hole. Difference between M/V of .30 carbine & TOK is only about 200fps. M1 carbine gas system is not a full system like Garand or M-14. Short stroke piston on has to move a bit to rotate the bolt, blowblack of round does the rest during cycling towards the rear.
Interesting to note that he hand loads the rds into the chamber, except for 2 he shoots mag-fed. His other videos showing vest penetration tests with this carbine are also single shot...so????
If, in fact,the Viets modified them, there is no way they would have done what Werle has done.
I don't have a proper reamer, but will work on getting the chamber close to a real profile with .30 carbine reamer & then .375 chucking reamer + a few other tricks. Only proof-of-concept, so if it works for 10-20 rds, I'll get a proper reamer.
Just wondering if there is any great interest out there if a 18.6 barrel is used?
This mag fits into a 15-rd M1 carbine mag almost perfectly.
I looked at Herr Werle's video, and one should check out his other stuff. www.waffen-werle.de Exotic Lugers and Garand creations. The guy is a highly skilled and creative gunsmith. However, I don't quite agree with the need to shorten up the slide and relocate the gas hole. Difference between M/V of .30 carbine & TOK is only about 200fps. M1 carbine gas system is not a full system like Garand or M-14. Short stroke piston on has to move a bit to rotate the bolt, blowblack of round does the rest during cycling towards the rear.
Interesting to note that he hand loads the rds into the chamber, except for 2 he shoots mag-fed. His other videos showing vest penetration tests with this carbine are also single shot...so????
If, in fact,the Viets modified them, there is no way they would have done what Werle has done.
I don't have a proper reamer, but will work on getting the chamber close to a real profile with .30 carbine reamer & then .375 chucking reamer + a few other tricks. Only proof-of-concept, so if it works for 10-20 rds, I'll get a proper reamer.
Just wondering if there is any great interest out there if a 18.6 barrel is used?
Manteo97 maybe you and beater should get together. I'd be interested in a couple of NR barrels for sure. I know first hand what your work is like and would have no hesitation in getting one. But one question,Diameter of 7.62x25 cartridge base is .392 while the .30 carbine is .354. How does one modify the bolt? I have heard that the bolt hardness can be a big issue. I talked to one supplier out there and he would sell the 7.62x25 with a rebatted rim to see if the carbine would function first and then one would have address that issue.
Now this conversion is only good until we have surplus ammo afterthat I'm not sure there would be a big savings.
Also are we going to be able use steel casings with no issues? I know we are repeatedly warned NOT to use steel cased .30 carbine ammo. Extractor spring upgrade maybe.Just putting it out there.
Now this conversion is only good until we have surplus ammo afterthat I'm not sure there would be a big savings.
Also are we going to be able use steel casings with no issues? I know we are repeatedly warned NOT to use steel cased .30 carbine ammo. Extractor spring upgrade maybe.Just putting it out there.It was no problem turning .020 or so off the ID of the shoulder of the bolt face so the TOK cartridge seats in. Bolt hardness is Rc 38 to 43, so my carbide cutter has no problem.
I've shot Russian steel-cased .30 carbine ammo (Herters) when I could get it with no extractor/ejection issues. It was cheap & shot just fine. I'd use it again if I could get it.
Making the barrel is the easy part.....perfecting a smooth semi-auto function is going to be the challenge.
I've shot Russian steel-cased .30 carbine ammo (Herters) when I could get it with no extractor/ejection issues. It was cheap & shot just fine. I'd use it again if I could get it.
Making the barrel is the easy part.....perfecting a smooth semi-auto function is going to be the challenge.
Excellant. Thanks for the info. Surplus miltary is hot correct? So should be ok. And you have a choice of slides with the m1 carbine to fine tune the "dwell time" if needed. Could always drill some holes in the slide to remove metal if needed to improve function. Ideas ideas
Exactly.
Stevens 200 action with .223 bolt head opened up slightly for the 7.62x25 rim and .308/.310 bore barrel. Figure out a way to adapt Tok TT33 mag or single shot only.
It's been thought of and done before, but many have given up the idea including myself.
I've picked up an extra M1 Carbine barrel and am having it re-chambering it to 7.62x25. I'll rebate the bases of some reloadable 7.62x25 cases - so that they fit the existing bolt face - to get things started. I'll probably feed it - to begin with - from the stock 15 round mag - expecting that only a few rounds will go in te stock M1 Carbine mag before the narrowness of the M1 carbine box no longer gets along with the wider (but shorter) 7.62x25 round.
I'm guessing that I'll have to open up the gas post and/ or lighten up the slide/ operating assembly to get reliable cycling.
Once things function well, I may pick-up a 9mm bolt - or have one fabricated - so that I don't need to use the rebated base cases anymore.
If things go well, I'll deal with the mag issue by boxing a TT or Zastava M57 Mag into and existing M1 carbine 15 round mag body (sandwiching the single stack mag into the double stack body with aluminium shim plates - inside left right and back).
I'll report results here in a few weeks - when things come together. The real issue will be whether the M1 Carbine's crazy slow twist (1:20!) can stabilize an 85 grain 7.62x25 TT bullet (that normally runs down a 1:8 to 1:10 twist barrel).
If the twist is an issue, I'll have to get my gun re-barreled (not just re-chambered) to 7.62x25. That will be more money. If I go that route, the one I'll have made-up will be non-restricted.
Sounds like a good plan hayday!
I will share this about TOK rds in an M1 mag. They will fit OK, at least up to 5 rds, but the problem is when the M1 carbine bolt slides forward to feed the round, because of the bottle shape of the TOK rd, it nose dives down towards the rd below it, and jams on the feed ramp of the receiver. I did want to try and radically modify the feed ramp, as I was fairly sure it would not help. I tried playing around with trying to put a spacer in the mag to keep the TOK rds close to the front of the mag, but was not successful in getting the mag follower/spring to function reliably.
Ted
I will share this about TOK rds in an M1 mag. They will fit OK, at least up to 5 rds, but the problem is when the M1 carbine bolt slides forward to feed the round, because of the bottle shape of the TOK rd, it nose dives down towards the rd below it, and jams on the feed ramp of the receiver. I did want to try and radically modify the feed ramp, as I was fairly sure it would not help. I tried playing around with trying to put a spacer in the mag to keep the TOK rds close to the front of the mag, but was not successful in getting the mag follower/spring to function reliably.
Ted
