7 x 57 Brno

[K98]

In the early 70's, the 602 was available in 358 Norma and 404 Jeffery.

The Model 22 is the carbine, and the model 21 the rifle. H stands for half stock, and F for full stock.

I have a 22H, 21F, ZG 47, and ZKK 600. I prefer the 22H: THE Mountain Rifle.

I'm looking for a 602 in 404J, a ZG 47 in 10.75x68, and a 22H in 6.5x57.

Bah! You can't even compare with dancz over at rimfire central so you might as well give up and sell me your Brno's cheap so I can add them to mine.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167314

 

[NAA]

The older Brno's are great rifles...

7x57mm would be an awesome ctg to get one in...

 

[gunrunner100]

I have to go clean myself up....
Someone find me one of these.

 

[albayo]

7 X 57 Mannlicher

I like the Mannlicher and would like to have one in 7 X 57.

What is the fascination with 9, 9.3’s, 10mm’s, and the different European calibers? Are they just a fad, or just that good and we folks in the colonies just haven’t heard of them? Are they comfortable to shoot?

 

[Noel]

I like the Mannlicher and would like to have one in 7 X 57.

What is the fascination with 9, 9.3’s, 10mm’s, and the different European calibers? Are they just a fad, or just that good and we folks in the colonies just haven’t heard of them? Are they comfortable to shoot?

The only drawback to them is the brass. Other than that they feed easier than any 308 based case I have tried and also get the same or better velocities.

They really hit hard too in my short time playing with them. I certainly hope they are not a fad as some here would believe. I hope they are on the edge of a huge comeback. I doubt that will really happen though.

 

[J Stuart]

Brno 21

Here is the 9,3 I spoke of. If I had an opportunity to get one like this I'd be swapping out my ZG in a heartbeat. It is nice, but I just have a soft spot for the 21's. Boy it would kick!

Note how the above 21H (the scoped one) has the ZG47 style safety, they seem more often this way in the Europoean countries. They take some getting used to that is for sure. Forward for safe, and back to fire.

I think I found these on the 24hr campfire. IIRC it was in N.Y.

I think the same guy has this one too.

Can anyone tell I am having a bit of a BRNO covetting problem?

Don't worry Nechako, we are all in the same boat. Try having a family and keeping your gun fix fed!

Noel

You rotten so and so, since reading your post I have been anxiously perusing for another Model 21.
I hope your chooks turn into emu's and kick your s**thouse down.
Regards, J Stuart.

 

[Noel]

You rotten so and so, since reading your post I have been anxiously perusing for another Model 21.
I hope your chooks turn into emu's and kick your s**thouse down.
Regards, J Stuart.

My deepest appologies Mr. Stuart. You have fine taste. I would have two for sale if you found two of these round top reciever rifles located with the claw mounts.

I have the pics on a revolving screensaver at work. I am not so sure it helps me concentrate on my work or helps to subdue my thirst for adding another classic to the harem either.

There is no cure, resistance is futile.

 

[Nechako]

Hi J Stuart, welcome to the forums!

The 21H is a small ring Mauser 98, correct?
I'm wondering if the 9.3x62 might be too much for the action if something bad happened while shooting it?

Thanks
Nechako

 

[Noel]

Hi J Stuart, welcome to the forums!

The 21H is a small ring Mauser 98, correct?
I'm wondering if the 9.3x62 might be too much for the action if something bad happened while shooting it?

Thanks
Nechako

You are correct Richard, the 21H is a small ring. However the 9,3x62 does not run at higher pressures than any of the other cartridges the 21's are chambered for. The case is only very slightly larger in dia. than any of the Xx57 cases.
Now if you went to the 64 Brenneke case you might run into grief but I believe you could get away with that one too. Please correct me if I am wrong anybody!

It certainly is tempting to do such a project.

Did you go buy that 21H then?

 

[albayo]

Brno Rifles 9mm's

I picked up a large quantity of 9mm X 57 rounds and sold most of them at gun shows but kept a few rounds in case I had a chance to shoot one of the guns. I may have some of the bullets for reloading them but will have to check them out.
I also picked up some other ammo for the European guns and Drillings and a combination of 4 barrels like a Drilling which has three barrels this one has four. I am missing the receiver and forestock, but have the leather carry case, an interesting thing.

 

[nrut]

Boy Noel,when you post #### you go all the way don't you!!!...
My question for anyone that may know is what years did they make the round top receivers in the 21's and 22's...and if they were called 21&22's....

 

[J Stuart]

You are correct Richard, the 21H is a small ring. However the 9,3x62 does not run at higher pressures than any of the other cartridges the 21's are chambered for. The case is only very slightly larger in dia. than any of the Xx57 cases.
Now if you went to the 64 Brenneke case you might run into grief but I believe you could get away with that one too. Please correct me if I am wrong anybody!

It certainly is tempting to do such a project.

Did you go buy that 21H then?

There are a couple of 7x64's and a 8 mm magnum bombe (both original Brno chamberings) that I know of over in South Australia, the magnum bombe has a tendency to split the stock wrist so it pays to install cross bolts.
Most of the Brno Model 21's over here are in 8X57, there are the odd 6.5x57 and 7x57, 8mm magnum bombe and 7x64 are like hens teeth, for that matter all Model 21's are like hens teeth over here, on the other hand there are a bucket load of ZKW 465's, although most (not all) have been converted to killburn's or .17 ackley's, also Model 1's and Model 2's are all over the place, model 5's are a little hard to find, there are the odd 4 and 3.
Roundtop 21's are uncommon which is a good thing as nobody wants them, generally they come with factory installed claw mounts which means they have corresponding cuts in the receiver, which in my personal opinion sucks, would you believe some throwback actually rebarrelled a Model 21 into .22-250, twit!
My Model 21 (1949)has the half stock and 20.5" barrel + square receiver, my Model 5 is a 1958. I sold my 1956 ZG 47 .270 to my brother with the stipulation that should it be sold it has to come back to me, likewise my spare 1958 Model 5.
Regards, J Stuart.


PS; Yes my brother and I are close, I sold the two Brno's to him for half of what I payed for them as I wanted him to start shooting with quality arms not rubbish, although I took pains to impress upon him what they are.

 

[Noel]

There are a couple of 7x64's and a 8 mm magnum bombe (both original Brno chamberings) that I know of over in South Australia, the magnum bombe has a tendency to split the stock wrist so it pays to install cross bolts.
Most of the Brno Model 21's over here are in 8X57, there are the odd 6.5x57 and 7x57, 8mm magnum bombe and 7x64 are like hens teeth, for that matter all Model 21's are like hens teeth over here, on the other hand there are a bucket load of ZKW 465's, although most (not all) have been converted to killburn's or .17 ackley's, also Model 1's and Model 2's are all over the place, model 5's are a little hard to find, there are the odd 4 and 3.
Roundtop 21's are uncommon which is a good thing as nobody wants them, generally they come with factory installed claw mounts which means they have corresponding cuts in the receiver, which in my personal opinion sucks, would you believe some throwback actually rebarrelled a Model 21 into .22-250, twit!
My Model 21 (1949)has the half stock and 20.5" barrel + square receiver, my Model 5 is a 1958. I sold my 1956 ZG 47 .270 to my brother with the stipulation that should it be sold it has to come back to me, likewise my spare 1958 Model 5.
Regards, J Stuart.


PS; Yes my brother and I are close, I sold the two Brno's to him for half of what I payed for them as I wanted him to start shooting with quality arms not rubbish, although I took pains to impress upon him what they are.

J, I am very glad you decided to join up with CGN! This is just the info I needed to hear as far as the claw mounts go. Do they reduce the structural integrity of the action or just leave you with impossible to find sky high only scope rings? IMO they are much more pretty than the full square bridged recievers. Looks isn't everything if it is weak.

I've never heard of this 8mm bombe. Is it any good?
As far as it is hard on stocks I would be so bold as to say even the 8x57 will be cracking the wrist if not properly supported too. Let's just say I learned this the hard way. Thank goodness Guntech left it looking almost like new again.

Both my 21's are 1950 Manufacture, but they also both have 23" or 24" (?) pipes on them. One single trigger, the other is Double.

If you have any other info to offer I am all ears J Stuart!

Cheers,
Noel

 

[brno375]

My question for anyone that may know is what years did they make the round top receivers in the 21's and 22's...and if they were called 21&22's....

Brno started making sporting rifles from their military action in 1937 and they also built a few with a solid left wall but they are not that common. Around 1947 they introduced the double square bridge.

 

[Mauser98]

Boy Noel,when you post #### you go all the way don't you!!!...
My question for anyone that may know is what years did they make the round top receivers in the 21's and 22's...and if they were called 21&22's....

There is a ton of information on http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve Do a search on user name 'Alf'. He is the resident expert and apparently owns more Mausers than Germany.

Or do search on 'Brno 21H'

Here's a couple of bits of information he posted.

Brno Model 721 or 722 depending on whether it is a half stock (721) or a full stock (722). Americans know it as model 21H and 22F respectively.

This particular model was built in 1948 as shown by the date stamp ( 48) and the rifle should have a SN smaller than 23000 as it has a rounde ring action and not the typical Brno squared bridges.

 

[Noel]

Is there a book a guy could buy to find out more info regarding these older generation Brno's?

I've been checking out alot of the info at the AR site too, it's good stuff and pretty good guys.

Noel

 

[brno375]

Is there a book a guy could buy to find out more info regarding these older generation Brno's?

Dolinek, Karlicky & Vacha. Czech Firearms & Ammunition: History & Present. Radix, 1995. 192p. Color Photos.

Good luck finding it, but if you do happen to find two, drop me a line. I have found a couple of listings through Google but they are out of date and no longer available.

 

[brno375]

There is a ton of information on http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve Do a search on user name 'Alf'. He is the resident expert and apparently owns more Mausers than Germany.

Or do search on 'Brno 21H'

Here's a couple of bits of information he posted.

Alf is not ignorant, however I believe he is misinformed concerning the differences between a 21 and 22. It is a reference to barrel length and not the stock. See page 306 of "Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles" by Speed, Schmid, Herrmann.

 

[Noel]

Alf is not ignorant, however I believe he is misinformed concerning the differences between a 21 and 22. It is a reference to barrel length and not the stock. See page 306 of "Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles" by Speed, Schmid, Herrmann.

I have wondered if there was a 21F and a 22F having a 20" barrel as some have mentioned having. A carbine version if you will.

And then the 21H is half stock but the longer barrel.

Interesting...... I will see if I can track down the book, hopefully I will be as flukey at finding two copies of it as finding the rifles inthe first place.

Thanks!

 

[J Stuart]

J, I am very glad you decided to join up with CGN! This is just the info I needed to hear as far as the claw mounts go. Do they reduce the structural integrity of the action or just leave you with impossible to find sky high only scope rings? IMO they are much more pretty than the full square bridged receivers. Looks isn't everything if it is weak.

I've never heard of this 8mm bombe. Is it any good?
As far as it is hard on stocks I would be so bold as to say even the 8x57 will be cracking the wrist if not properly supported too. Let's just say I learned this the hard way. Thank goodness Guntech left it looking almost like new again.

Both my 21's are 1950 Manufacture, but they also both have 23" or 24" (?) pipes on them. One single trigger, the other is Double.

If you have any other info to offer I am all ears J Stuart!

Cheers,
Noel

Noel, should you purchase a square top Brno you have the option of utilizing the skeletonized meopta base, fortunately the Leupold QR rings have the same diameter stud, just a little longer, with the addition of a kingpin reamer you have the ability to use 1"to 30mm Leupold rings(they come in a variety of heights) and ANYTHING in between, also the reamer allows you to utilize older reticle moving scopes and centre the reticle, not just windage but elevation as well.
First tap the appropriate size rings to 6mm(and purchase high tensile 6mm dome head bolts), shorten the studs to size, mount the scope(you may need to ream the rings first) and sight the rifle, check the point of impact on a collimator, use the reamer(gently) to ream the mounts, both at the same time(gently applying downwards pressure to the end that requires the most removal, my front ring had to come down .034"), checking (by constantly reinstalling) the point of impact on the collimator, when the (centered) scope lines up on the collimator you can blue the rings and put the lot back together.
I like the Pecar scopes as they have a round bottom tube under the scope adjustments(this allows the scope to sit down between the mount rails), they also have a longer scope tube which allows one to set the scope back for correct eye relief when standing on ones hind legs.
The benefits derived from this approach are; you can use an older scope(much cheaper alternative), you get to use the lovely Meopta base, once everything is together and sighted in you can at any time remove the scope and base with a coin and shoot with your open sights, what is more the scope goes back to the same point of impact(mine does), not around or near,SAME!
The reamer size you want for 1" to 26.5mm is 15/16ths-1 1/16ths.
Remember to take the reamer back to the fellow you got it off, I keep forgetting to do so, maybe if I forget long enough he will not remember, fat chance!
Regards, J Stuart.

PS: This approach does take considerable time, however the benefits are there.