7 x 61 Sharp and Hart

Falconflyer

Falconflyer

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I acquired a 7x61 S&H rifle a couple of years ago but due to time (and other things) have not really had a chance to develop a good load for it. My rifle has a 1-12 twist and so far I've found that 160 grain bullets will keyhole the paper at 100 yards so I'm assuming that this twist won't stabilize this weight of bullet. 140's seem to do pretty good and I haven't tried 150's yet but that will be on the list of things to do.
I'm using date from the Hornady Third Edition manual which I purchased new in approximately 1980, and so far it's about the only source of data I've found!

Is anyone here loading for the 7x61 S&H?
 
I have a 1-10 twist 7x61 S&H and I'm going to have a guy from Sask. load me up some 150 because I don't reload. I have never shot it so I'm not sure what would work best with the 1-10 twist. I got it when my dad passed this spring, he bought it new and never shot it. I bought a 100 virgin Norma super brass to get loaded. I will be watching this thread myself for info.
 
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I have seen both of those reloading sources but thansk for posting. My rifle is the 7x61 S&H but not the Super version which is what the second link is for. There isn't much difference but the cases were made thinner from what I understand in order to accommodate more powder. Not a big difference in performance from what I've read but the 7mm mag market was pretty competitive and the future of the winner was measured in 10's of feet per second and not 100's!
 
FreedomIsn'tFree said:
I have a 1-10 twist 7x61 S&H and I'm going to have a guy from Sask. load me up some 150 because I don't reload. I have never shot it so I'm not sure what would work best with the 1-10 twist. I got it when my dad pasted this spring, he bought it new and never shot it. I bought a 100 virgin Norma super brass to get loaded. I will be watching this thread myself for info.
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I'm certain that you'd be fine with 150's and venture to guess that 160's would work with a 1-10 twist as well. I've had 7mm rem mag's with 1-9 twists that would stabilize 175 grain bullets with no problems.
 
The Norma Super brass is just the difference in the case thickness and works in any 7x61 just more powder to try and match the 7mm mag. The difference in the chart just reflects if you have Norma thicker brass or Super thinner brass for amount of powder.
 
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Falconflyer said:
I have seen both of those reloading sources but thansk for posting. My rifle is the 7x61 S&H but not the Super version which is what the second link is for. There isn't much difference but the cases were made thinner from what I understand in order to accommodate more powder. Not a big difference in performance from what I've read but the 7mm mag market was pretty competitive and the future of the winner was measured in 10's of feet per second and not 100's!
Click to expand...

So, I spent quite bit of time sorting out a Schultz and Larsen rifle in S&H 7x61 rifle for a friend. Phil Sharpe designed the cartridge around 160 grain bullets and IMR 4350 powder. Read so in multiple places on Internet. Mostly, almost exclusively, commercially loaded by Norma. Original version cases were headstamped "7x61 Re". Remington then introduced their 7mm Magnum which outperformed the 7x61. Sharpe had died and no longer had much say, so Norma engineers re-designed the case - better alloy / different heat treat / just as strong, just thinner than original. New revised cases head stamped and were marketed as 7x61 Super. Identical outside dimensions. Identical peak pressures. Only difference was it was faster round, but not quite catch up to the Remington 7mm Mag. The last loading by Norma of the 7x61 Super used 154 grain Hornady Interlock. Again, read that in several places. Loads I built for friend were 154 Hornady Interlock with IMR 4350 powder, and Fed 215 primers in re-formed Remington 7mm Mag brass. He took a Sask farmland moose with it with a single shot. Done and done.
 
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I get decent results using 160 Flat Base bullets in my 1 in 12 twist, 26" long 7x61 S&H but they have to be pushed pretty fast.

A much better load is the 139 grain Hornady Soft Point. In my rifle it has 3000 fps muzzle velocity and will very often print 3 shot 1" groups at 200 yards off the bench. (I once had 3 bullet holes touching at 200 yards but the stars must have been properly aligned that day!)

The load is 64 grains of H4831sc in a NORMA 7x61 (not Super) case lit with a CCI 200 primer. Sierra has many loads for the 7 x 61 S&H as does Hornady.
 
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I've had a fair bit of experience working with the 7x61.
Those S&L rifles with the 12" twist will stabilize everything up to and including a 150 grain flat based bullet, and
some will even stabilize a Flat based 160 if you push it.
The 10" twist is good to go up to and including a flat based 175 grain bullet.
The Super 7x61 case holds enough Norma MRP to drive a 160 to near 3000 fps in 26" barrels.
These rifles tend to be quite accurate, but brass life will be shorter if you must load them as hot as possible.
Backing off a bit solves this issue. While I have used the older brass Heastamped 7x61 S&H Re, It has less
capacity than the super 7x61, and is somewhat softer, IME. Regards, Dave.
 
May as well put up a pic. This is the rifle my dad took care of for around 70 years till I just got it. He bought the 7mm mag I have now as well and just kept Schultz and Larson for his collection.
j7fBhwO.jpg
 
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Potashminer said:
So, I spent quite bit of time sorting out a Schultz and Larsen rifle in S&H 7x61 rifle for a friend. Phil Sharpe designed the cartridge around 160 grain bullets and IMR 4350 powder. Read so in multiple places on Internet. Mostly, almost exclusively, commercially loaded by Norma. Original version cases were headstamped "7x61 Re". Remington then introduced their 7mm Magnum which outperformed the 7x61. Sharpe had died and no longer had much say, so Norma engineers re-designed the case - better alloy / different heat treat / just as strong, just thinner than original. New revised cases head stamped and were marketed as 7x61 Super. Identical outside dimensions. Identical peak pressures. Only difference was it was faster round, but not quite catch up to the Remington 7mm Mag. The last loading by Norma of the 7x61 Super used 154 grain Hornady Interlock. Again, read that in several places. Loads I built for friend were 154 Hornady Interlock with IMR 4350 powder, and Fed 215 primers in re-formed Remington 7mm Mag brass. He took a Sask farmland moose with it with a single shot. Done and done.
Click to expand...

That pretty much reflects what I've read about it.
I should have clarified that my rifle isn't chambered for Super but my brass is not Super brass, big difference. I found 7 boxes of new Norma brass at a gun show and snatched it up, beggers can't be choosers! Yet to find Super brass.
As previously mentioned, my rifle is 1-12 twist and initial tests show that 160 grain bullets are key holing at 100 yards. I've read of 7x61 rifles having 1-14 twists and won't stabilize anything heavier than 120 grain bullets, seems like bad planning to me and not entirely unexpected!
 
'Boo said:
I get decent results using 160 Flat Base bullets in my 1 in 12 twist, 26" long 7x61 S&H but they have to be pushed pretty fast.

A much better load is the 139 grain Hornady Soft Point. In my rifle it has 3000 fps muzzle velocity and will very often print 3 shot 1" groups at 200 yards off the bench. (I once had 3 bullet holes touching at 200 yards but the stars must have been properly aligned that day!)

The load is 64 grains of H4380sc in a NORMA 7x61 (not Super) case lit with a CCI 200 primer. Sierra has many loads for the 7 x 61 S&H as does Hornady.
Click to expand...


I'm playing with the 139 grain Hornady SST's right now and they are showing some promise. I'm using IMR 4350, 62.7 grains as per the Hornady Third Edition and Fed 215's, still have to experiment with it some more though.
 
FreedomIsn'tFree said:
May as well put up a pic. This is the rifle my dad took care of for around 70 years till I just got it. He bought the 7mm mag I have now as well and just kept Schultz and Larson for his collection.
j7fBhwO.jpg
Click to expand...


Sorry for the passing of your father.
That's a great looking rifle. I passed on a Schultz and Larson in 7x61 due to it being over priced and in less than good/fair condition but I've always wanted one.... just because!
 
Eagleye said:
I've had a fair bit of experience working with the 7x61.
Those S&L rifles with the 12" twist will stabilize everything up to and including a 150 grain flat based bullet, and
some will even stabilize a Flat based 160 if you push it.
The 10" twist is good to go up to and including a flat based 175 grain bullet.
The Super 7x61 case holds enough Norma MRP to drive a 160 to near 3000 fps in 26" barrels.
These rifles tend to be quite accurate, but brass life will be shorter if you must load them as hot as possible.
Backing off a bit solves this issue. While I have used the older brass Heastamped 7x61 S&H Re, It has less
capacity than the super 7x61, and is somewhat softer, IME. Regards, Dave.
Click to expand...



Good info Dave, thanks.
While my rifle isn't an S&L, my brass is all stamped Norma Re but I don't have any issues with that. I loaded really hot rounds for some of my rifles in my younger days and I'm content now to just load to comfortable levels! The loads I'm playing with currently have room left in the case for a couple more grains of powder so case capacity isn't an issue... at least at this point!
 
I managed to get out to the range for a quick visit this morning. I loaded up a couple of 150 grain Barnes X bullets that I've had laying around for a while and I'm happy to say that they did not key hole at 100 yards so I guess I'll start thinking about what I want to try loading in that weight. I only had a few X bullets left in an old box and have no intention of using more of them, I may try a TTSX though. I'm happy that it appears the 150's will stabilize in the 1-12 twist barrel, the 160's I tried did not.
The 140 grain SST's are showing promise but need some tweaking yet.
 
Falconflyer said:
That pretty much reflects what I've read about it.
I should have clarified that my rifle isn't chambered for Super but my brass is not Super brass, big difference. I found 7 boxes of new Norma brass at a gun show and snatched it up, beggers can't be choosers! Yet to find Super brass.
As previously mentioned, my rifle is 1-12 twist and initial tests show that 160 grain bullets are key holing at 100 yards. I've read of 7x61 rifles having 1-14 twists and won't stabilize anything heavier than 120 grain bullets, seems like bad planning to me and not entirely unexpected!
Click to expand...

I don't think there is (or was) any rifle chambered for "7x61 Super" - that was a marketing name given by Norma to their "new improved" cartridges that they developed for 7x61 Sharpe and Hart chambered rifles.
 
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