870 vs. Grizzly vs. Norc HP-9

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Whiskey01

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I know this has probably been done sometime ago but I wasn't able to find it. I'm new so i'll apologize in advance.

The grizzlys and the norcs have gotten some good reviews but quite a few people are still against chinese made guns.

I was wondering if anyone has any known quality issues between the chinese made and the remmington? or even between the grizzly and the norc?

thanks!
 
Hey Whiskey01, I have the Grizzly. It's from the initial shipment of guns with no choke tube... LOVE IT! It is my "go to" gun for being in the woods. It's a quality gun at an affordable price.

Cheers
Jay
 
I own all three. I can't comment on the Grizzly as I haven't fired it yet. It needed to be returned and fixed. At least I think it will be returned, I haven't heard anything about it lately (I don'tmean that as a shot at CanAm). It handles great, the fit and finish are the same as HP-9 (same factory IIRC). My HP-9 is solid minus the shell latch that wasn't staked in at the factory. I made the mistake of leaving it my range bag for a day. EVERY metal outside surface was covered in rust, thankfully the oil inside the receiver wasn't rubbed off. It was easy to clean but the thing needs to be oiled properly and regularly. As for 870s I would say the Express quality is better than Norinco or Grizz, but there are definitely lemons that pop up. A wingmaster\police\Marine Magnum 870 etc. would be a significant upgrade in quality.
 
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My experience with the Grizz I purchased is somewhat better than B's. It did require a little TLC (polishing) on the inside to slick it up. Now it compares very favourably to my 870 Wingmaster. I have had no reliability issues so far, but I have only put about 200 slugs and 50 rounds of birdshot through it. I can't comment on the HP9 but as previously stated I am pretty sure it is the same gun from the same factory. You can check out a thread I have on what was done to my Grizz here:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332120
 
ckid said:
My experience with the Grizz I purchased is somewhat better than B's. It did require a little TLC (polishing) on the inside to slick it up. Now it compares very favourably to my 870 Wingmaster. I have had no reliability issues so far, but I have only put about 200 slugs and 50 rounds of birdshot through it. I can't comment on the HP9 but as previously stated I am pretty sure it is the same gun from the same factory. You can check out a thread I have on what was done to my Grizz here:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332120
Click to expand...

250 rounds..........so few.

I'm over 9000 rounds as of Sunday night that just passed and nothing has worn out or broken.

Had a few shells fail to eject or fail to load but it was traced to mud snow and dirt debris from throwing the gun on the ground too much and loading a lot of dirty shells that I dropped on the ground.

It was $320 and its chinese, I beat on it like there is no tomorrow and yet the gun won't fail me.

Mine is a later model with the choke installed but its useless anyways. I've shot so many bloody slugs out of it the choke is useless now.

Birdshot can drop foul out of the air out to about 70 yards. Buckshot I shoot out to 100 yard area and slugs.....well how far is the target?

I can consistently place 1oz an 1 1/4z oz slugs onto a 4ft x 3ft boulder at....200+ yards I think was the farthest I've placed them.

I'll pace out the distance next time I go shooting.

As for mods....Command Arms M4 stock, generic pistol grip foregrip and happy cap or +1 extension at times.

IMG_1604.jpg




The gun will spit out anything you put it in in 2 3/4" or 3" shell size.

2 3/4's in that video, used up my 3's but I'll post video of the gun with 3's soon.

IMG_1595-1.jpg


Barrel picture was taken around 8000-8500 round mark.

Best bang for your buck as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT:

The Griz & HP-9 are the SAME GUN. Both come from the same factories...hence why the Griz ships in an HP-9 box. I bought mine brand new and noticed this.

Only difference is the Griz offers Ghost ring sights and the a 12.5" barrel as where the HP9 has bead sights and a 14" barrel.

Mechanically identical in all aspects, same #### just 1.5" longer.

So ya know.
 
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The quality control on the Chinese 870 copies is extremely variable. The better ones compare well with the Remington but the worst are quite bad. I wouldn't buy a Norinco/Grizzly sight unseen.

What the Chinese guns are missing is the flex-tab. On a 12 guage 870 it's the u-shaped cut out in the shell lifter. The flex-tab addresses a specific type of 870 that occurs when a shell goes into the action. Without the flex-tab the gun needs to be taken apart, with the flex tab the jam can be cleared with a hard yank on the pump.

I've shot tens of thousands of rounds through my 870s and never had this jam occur. My 20 gauge doesn't have it and it's not a major issue although the 20 doesn't get used for serious matters.
 
Claybuster is bang on about the flex tab, I have never had the double feed issue either. The bolt that is used with a flex tab gun is also different, but a non flex tab bolt can be modified to work, but replacement is definitley easier. The only time I have seen it happen is when we intentionaly induce double feeds during qualification training excersises. If I stumble onto a flex tab carrier for a steal of a deal I will probably upgrade my grizzly.

Grove: Yes 250 rounds is peanuts but I haven't had the gun very long. When I run the spring shotgun quals for my employer it should get a hell of a workout.
 
No it is very uncommon. The only way I've seen it happen is during training when a shell is intentionally loaded into the mag backwards and the gun is cycled which causes an extra cartridge to come out of the mag and bind the carrier. Supposedly it can happen in the real world but I think it would take a defective rim or an issue with the shell latches.
 
Someone should try it with their grizzly..I seem to recall it not being an issue with the Grizzly but I'm on the road and can't check mine.
A flex tab is a pretty cheap and easy part to change out and according to an AGI 870 Armourer's course I saw it is not necessary to modify or change the bolt to the new style.
 
You can still clear a double feed on a pre-flextab gun without disassembly but I have never tried it myself. All you do if firmly grasp the forearm and forcefully drive the butt stock against a solid object (the ground) and it should clear. The offending cartridge should not be used as most likely a portion of the rim will be torn off, but the gun will be back in action.
 
You guys wanna know something funny, it happened to me just this morning about an hour and a half after I posted that. I find that very ironic! I wasn't looking at the shells and had gloves on:redface: I turned the gun upside down, used a knife to depress the shell latch, slapped the receiver and presto it was fixed. Had that been a more urgent situation I would have been f**ked.
 
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B said:
You guys wanna know something funny, it happened to me just this morning about an hour and a half after I posted that. I find that very ironic! I wasn't looking at the shells and had gloves on:redface: I turned the gun upside down, used a knife to depress the shell latch, slapped the receiver and presto it was fixed. Had that been a more urgent situation I would have been f**ked.
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So you couldn't clear it with reasonable force?
 
I have 500-600 trouble free rounds through my HP9. Bird shot, buck shot, slugs, ect.

Functions great, points quick, doesnt "cycle" like a Wingmaster though....

Right on par with my 870 Express...
 
Can-down said:
So you couldn't clear it with reasonable force?
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I yanked on that forearm pretty hard, remembering the post I had read earlier. No luck, I was actually surprised at the difficulty in clearing the jam. It took more fiddling than my previous post let on. Depressing the latch and smacking the top of the receiver took some coordination!
 
wow...thanks for all the great information.

So other than the flex-tab and not cycling as smoothly, there doesn't seem to be too much difference between the remmington and the well built chinese ones.

Unfortunately there seems to be two types of chinese built ones...good ones and lemons. I would be buying it sight unseen as I am looking at ordering it from CanAm...

B what did you have to return your grizz for?
 
One of the shell latches was bowed out in such a way as to prevent shells from popping out properly. There is a pretty big thread with photos somewhere in here. FWIW and not having shot the Grizz, I prefer it over the Norinco.
 
I yanked on that forearm pretty hard, remembering the post I had read earlier. No luck, I was actually surprised at the difficulty in clearing the jam. It took more fiddling than my previous post let on. Depressing the latch and smacking the top of the receiver took some coordination!
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Did you remove the mag cap and spring and push it out the tube?
The other way to clear is to drop the trigger assembly.
 
Hi all,
The 'Remington Jam' and Double Feeds are two completely different jams.

The Dominion/Norinco is a copy of built the first generation 870s and there are more differences than the flexi tabs. The bolt, bolt carrier, carrier and rail cuts are all different than the later generations that have the flexitab; I guess they felt that jamming guns did not sell well ;) There are also some small dimensional differences between the 870s and chinese guns, particularly in the trigger parts that I noticed.

The imfamous 'Remington Jam' happens when a round is not fully seated into the magazine and is not engaged by the shell latches, it slips back between the bolt and carrier.
The jam can be cleared by pressing and holding the action release, facing the gun away from your face (and looking away in case of detonation) and jamming the buttstock hard onto a solid object like the ground or a stump, it can take a lot of force and can rip a part of the case brass off and isn't really great for the gun but it does get it back into action quickly. (Don't jam it against your leg...bad charleyhorse) The newer guns basically make the Remington Jam obsolete, if it happens you simply open the action....very little or no extra force needed since the round does not wedge backward between the bolt and carrier.
In 19 years of carrying for months in the bush I have had Remington jam once (in my second season on an old style Wingmaster). I train all the jams annually several times a year (Rem jam, double feeds and backward rounds) and with practice they can all be cleared very quickly.

The double feed jam that Ckid mentioned is a different jam that happens when two rounds are released from the magazine when the action is cycled. In this case the action is open (as opposed to closed as in the Remington jam) and it is cleared differently than the Remington jam with 'push-pinch-pull' approach. It also can be cleared quickly (6 seconds was fast, IIRC someone did it in 4)

I have one of the good Grizzlies that I am trying not to have to sell to pay for other toys, I like it.
Cheers
 
I have a Rem 870 Police, Rem 870 Express, and Dominion Arms (12.5" bead version).
Have not tried a Norinco but when I was last at the gun shop the Norinco looked exactly like the Dominion Arms sans longer barrel (12.5 " vs. 14").

The DA is presently in pieces and is being parkerized and then duracoated (DIY project).

Fit and finish of the DA is between the Express and Wingmaster. Other than the crappy finish and sharp edges (which I cleaned up) the chinese shotgun is just as good as the Remingtons.

L
 
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