8x57 JS ( 8MM Mauser) hunting and adventures!
- Thread starter dgradinaru
- Start date
Nice to see you "whackin' em and stackin' em," Daniel. That CZ is a nice looking rifle.
My only "X57" cartridge left is the HC. I still shoot a pair of 7X64 Brenneke's and really like the S&B 173 SPCE load on game.
I was out to the range today, getting my spring bear rifles ready. The .350 Rem Mag and .458 Win Mag are zeroed and ready to go. My first group is on stand now... it has been an extremely late spring here.
My only "X57" cartridge left is the HC. I still shoot a pair of 7X64 Brenneke's and really like the S&B 173 SPCE load on game.
I was out to the range today, getting my spring bear rifles ready. The .350 Rem Mag and .458 Win Mag are zeroed and ready to go. My first group is on stand now... it has been an extremely late spring here.
The 8x57JS is one of my favorite chamberings. As another poster said, it is very close to a 30-06.
My present 8x57 is a rebarrelled M700 Remington. It has a 24", Benchmark barrel, and is bedded in a
Boyd's Walnut stock of the Classic configuration.
This rifle is very accurate, and is quite Catholic as to what I feed it, shooting all weights and designs well.
I do prefer the 196-200 weight bullets, and have shot a couple of Moose and 3 Black Bears with it. Another
Blackie was taken with the 180 Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 2780 fps
Some loads I have had great success with: [Do not use until proven safe in YOUR rifle, please!]
196 Alaska - 53.2 of W760
196 Norma Dual Core - 55.0 of VV N160
196 Norma ORYX - 52.5 of Big Game
200 Nosler Accubond - 46.5 of Norma 202
185 Remington Cor-Lokt - 49.5 of W748
180 Nosler Ballistic Tip - 51.5 of VV N150
My present 8x57 is a rebarrelled M700 Remington. It has a 24", Benchmark barrel, and is bedded in a
Boyd's Walnut stock of the Classic configuration.
This rifle is very accurate, and is quite Catholic as to what I feed it, shooting all weights and designs well.
I do prefer the 196-200 weight bullets, and have shot a couple of Moose and 3 Black Bears with it. Another
Blackie was taken with the 180 Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 2780 fps
Some loads I have had great success with: [Do not use until proven safe in YOUR rifle, please!]
196 Alaska - 53.2 of W760
196 Norma Dual Core - 55.0 of VV N160
196 Norma ORYX - 52.5 of Big Game
200 Nosler Accubond - 46.5 of Norma 202
185 Remington Cor-Lokt - 49.5 of W748
180 Nosler Ballistic Tip - 51.5 of VV N150
moosinaroundv2
New member
- Location
- Central Interior BC
I'm looking for a 8x57 JS in a Zastava or a CZ. I'd like to do a partial trade, the OP had a beauty on the EE, but I missed out on it. Looking to shoot 200gr sp of some kind, the 196 Oryx would work too! Moosinaround
Was that the zastava? That one tempted me...
Then he posts a zastava in 7x57 right after I bought a rem700!!!! The nerve...(I do like the 700) but I dunno..I have an older well used FN commercial in 7x57 and that CRF is smooth as silk. Just like CRF actions more than push.
I thought he used a .303 mostly.
Like many other professional elephant hunters of the time, he started hunting elephants with a sporting .303 Lee Enfield rifle, taking 63 elephant heads on his first safari.
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Not really; the 7mm Mauser's 173 gr. Steel-jacketed RN FMJ bullets, which had a Sectional Density of 0.310, that W.D.M. used, did not have an equivalent in the 7.92mm Mauser. The 227 gr. steel jacketed RN FMJ were of 0.318" diameter, although they did have an equivalent S.D. of 0.311, but they were not available in the S diameter.
I'm not slagging the 8 millimetre rifles; I have, and enjoy shooting, 3 Mauser rifles in ~8mm; an early [0.318" bore] Model 98, a Zastava M70 and a Husqvarna Model 146 [both having 0.323" bores].
The .256 Mannlicher Bell used, used a 156 grain RN FMJ bullet of ~156 grains, which have a S.D. of .320, & the .303 215 grain bullets he used in his Martini & Lee Enfield rifles, have a S.D. of .318.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Keep in mind most sporting 8x57 rifles of the time kept the .318" bore. In 1905 the German military did the switch to .323" but most sporting rifle manufacturers continued with the .318", then up in around the 20's and 30's a modification was done to the throats of many .318" bored rifles to be able to the shoot the .323 and those sporting rifles were marked "8,0N".
Another fact to consider is, many of the colonial troops and auxiliary/rear echelon still used the .318" bored 8x57 rifles like the g88 for a while, so the original stocks of ammo of 227gr rn were still being used up to and still manufactured to the lead up of world war 1 and 2. There is also evidence and documentation that the patrone 88 (.318") was still being made long after 1905 for existing stocks and for other markets.
Below are a couple screen shots sharing more info and evidence that the .318" 227gr RN load was still being manufactured well into the 1940's.
Another fact to consider is, many of the colonial troops and auxiliary/rear echelon still used the .318" bored 8x57 rifles like the g88 for a while, so the original stocks of ammo of 227gr rn were still being used up to and still manufactured to the lead up of world war 1 and 2. There is also evidence and documentation that the patrone 88 (.318") was still being made long after 1905 for existing stocks and for other markets.
Below are a couple screen shots sharing more info and evidence that the .318" 227gr RN load was still being manufactured well into the 1940's.
Attachments
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
During the winter I got out and did some coyote hunting. Shot 4 yotes from 30 to 240 yards or so. With my SS Tikka t3x and 196gr S&B factory loads at 2550 fps.
I'd be happy just looking at that snowscape!
QUOTE>>>>>most sporting 8x57 rifles of the time kept the .318" bore. In 1905 the German military did the switch to .323" but most sporting rifle manufacturers continued with the .318", then up in around the 20's and 30's a modification was done to the throats of many .318" bored rifles to be able to the shoot the .323<<<<<ENDQUOTE
I have, and have read, many times, Bell's, along with other authors' of the time's, works & nowhere have I seen mentioned that he, or, for that matter others, used an early [0.318" bore] Mauser. If it, or rather, the 227 gr. RN FMJ bullets were that good, why would he have not used one, notwithstanding that A) he abhored heavy-recoiling rifles & B) that he hunted in British colonies, where German cartridges, were not widely used, or even available?
I have, and have read, many times, Bell's, along with other authors' of the time's, works & nowhere have I seen mentioned that he, or, for that matter others, used an early [0.318" bore] Mauser. If it, or rather, the 227 gr. RN FMJ bullets were that good, why would he have not used one, notwithstanding that A) he abhored heavy-recoiling rifles & B) that he hunted in British colonies, where German cartridges, were not widely used, or even available?
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
That's an easy answer, he bought what the English market offered. A mauser rifle made by Rigby rifle in .275 bore (7x57) and like you said he hunted British colonies, so having something with availability made sense. No different than the German farmers in Tanzania and Namibia that were using 8x57 and 9.3x62, they used what was available on thier market.
In the excellent book, "African Rifles and Cartridges" by John "Pondoro" Taylor, there is a list in the back pages of which famous hunters of the time (about 1900 though 1940-someting ) used what cartridges.
I recall that many preferred the 8x57, AKA the .318 Mauser (not to be confused with the .318 Westley Richards cartridge, actually a .330 bore).
In the excellent book, "African Rifles and Cartridges" by John "Pondoro" Taylor, there is a list in the back pages of which famous hunters of the time (about 1900 though 1940-someting ) used what cartridges.
I recall that many preferred the 8x57, AKA the .318 Mauser (not to be confused with the .318 Westley Richards cartridge, actually a .330 bore).
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Denis Lyells used the 8x57 with great success including elephant.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
A few more references. This one is from Karamojo Safari by Bell where he's makes mention he'd want a .318 WR with a 250gr followed up with 8mm Mauser as his ideal choice for elephant.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
From African Rifles and Cartridges by John Taylor. Intresting note that the 227gr and 244 gr bullets were being used.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I'm not sure where I got the info back in the day - but I believe that SAAMI "dumbed down" the German 8x57JS - I think SAAMI pressure for that round is circa 39,000 PSI and they gave it a "new name" - "8 mm Mauser". SAAMI was formed in 1926 - likely some politics involved after WWI - Is probably what most people in North America have used - Winchester, Remington and Federal do or did make "8 mm Mauser" ammo. For Ballistic purposes, it might have made sense to re-form "American" 30-06 brass into 8mm-06 cartridges - to get improvement over SAAMI 8 mm Mauser - certainly somebody made money selling those dies, reamers, etc. However, those same users are "really surprised" to get C.I.P. standard 8x57JS rounds - C.I.P. never did "dumb down" that round. I think they are circa 50,000 psi pressure. Of course, Europeans were expected to know whether they had a 0.318" bore or a 0.323" bore - with SAAMI's "solution", ignorant people could fire 0.323" bullets in 0.318" bore and the thing would not blow up in their face - a "pity". So read on your firearm - is it stamped as for 8 mm Mauser?
