8x57R ammo
- Thread starter Beater
- Start date
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Trade ex lists both Norma and RWS 8x57 JRS ammunition in stock. It is important to determine if your gun is the older 8x57 JR (.318" diameter bullet) or the modern 8x57 JRS! ( .323" diameter bullet) There is no cartridge named simply "8x57R"
I have owned rifles chambered for both versions, the only 8x57 JR ammunition that I could ever find was made by RWS.
I have owned rifles chambered for both versions, the only 8x57 JR ammunition that I could ever find was made by RWS.
I think the Yugo M48s are 8x57 JS (non rimmed case). The "J" in the calibre desciption is a bit misleading. It should be an "I". "IS" stands for "infantry system" (.323) but the letter I in German writing looks like an J in English writing.
That is correct as to my knowledge.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
"this appears to be the 318 bore so i need 8x57JR it looks like JRS is for the new 323 bore diameter correct?" Yes.
My understanding of the "S" designation is that it specifies when the German military went from the old .318" dia. heavy round nose bullet to the newer high speed, lighter and slightly larger diameter "Spitzer" bullet. You can read up on that history elsewhere.
I had an old pre war Sauer drilling set up with an 8x57JR (.318") barrel under the twin 16 ga tubes. The really interesting thing was that it also had a plunger in the extractor, and would fire and extract rimless rounds as well. I think that one is for sale right now at Prophet river.
Now to make it even more complicated, give some background info and perhaps to offer an easy solution... both rimmed and rimless versions of the exact same cartridge case are made in Germany to European CIP specifications. The only difference is the designation "R" or not, and whether the rim is flush with the case wall ("rimless") or the rim protrudes ("rimmed").
So there are actually four version of this cartridge - 8x57J, 8x57JS, 8x57JR and 8x57JRS. confused yet?
Modern 8x57JS and 8x57JRS ( rimmed) are both loaded to higher pressure than the older and smaller diameter bullet 8x57J and 8x57JR.
North American manufacturers have chosen to ignore the difference between rimless 8x57JS and 8x57J ammunition. In North America all 8x57 ammo is loaded to SAAMI specifications and is called "8mm Mauser" This ammo is loaded with an in-between size .320" bullet and low pressure /low velocity 170 gr. RN loads, so it can be safely shot in rifles with either bore size. Performance suffers, it is not quite as accurate or as fast, but it is safe. Some European ammo imported by companies like PPU are also designated 8mm Mauser and loaded to low pressure.
So, If you are lucky and have the extra little plunger extractor in your drilling, you can load and fire 8mm mauser ammo in your old rifle, and i predict it will be safe to shoot. No prediction on the accuracy but you can buy 8mm mauser ammo quite readily almost anywhere.
My understanding of the "S" designation is that it specifies when the German military went from the old .318" dia. heavy round nose bullet to the newer high speed, lighter and slightly larger diameter "Spitzer" bullet. You can read up on that history elsewhere.
I had an old pre war Sauer drilling set up with an 8x57JR (.318") barrel under the twin 16 ga tubes. The really interesting thing was that it also had a plunger in the extractor, and would fire and extract rimless rounds as well. I think that one is for sale right now at Prophet river.
Now to make it even more complicated, give some background info and perhaps to offer an easy solution... both rimmed and rimless versions of the exact same cartridge case are made in Germany to European CIP specifications. The only difference is the designation "R" or not, and whether the rim is flush with the case wall ("rimless") or the rim protrudes ("rimmed").
So there are actually four version of this cartridge - 8x57J, 8x57JS, 8x57JR and 8x57JRS. confused yet?
Modern 8x57JS and 8x57JRS ( rimmed) are both loaded to higher pressure than the older and smaller diameter bullet 8x57J and 8x57JR.
North American manufacturers have chosen to ignore the difference between rimless 8x57JS and 8x57J ammunition. In North America all 8x57 ammo is loaded to SAAMI specifications and is called "8mm Mauser" This ammo is loaded with an in-between size .320" bullet and low pressure /low velocity 170 gr. RN loads, so it can be safely shot in rifles with either bore size. Performance suffers, it is not quite as accurate or as fast, but it is safe. Some European ammo imported by companies like PPU are also designated 8mm Mauser and loaded to low pressure.
So, If you are lucky and have the extra little plunger extractor in your drilling, you can load and fire 8mm mauser ammo in your old rifle, and i predict it will be safe to shoot. No prediction on the accuracy but you can buy 8mm mauser ammo quite readily almost anywhere.
German sporting arms made after WW1 were often made in the old 318. So date of manufacture is not a reliable indicator.
Handloading is the answer. I made mild plinkers for my 318 using 32 Spl bullets.
Barnes made me 318 bullets at no extra charge.
Handloading is the answer. I made mild plinkers for my 318 using 32 Spl bullets.
Barnes made me 318 bullets at no extra charge.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
I just looked up Selleir & Bellot, they make 8x57JR ammunition that would suit your rifle. A more economical alternative to RWS.
- Location
- pallisers triangle
thanks for the info. it looks to me like it would be very very easy to make this ammo from 303 brass. as to using standard 8mm mauser rimless ammo, I'm not going to try that, and have some probs. this round has lots more taper than the standard 8mm military round
Would be the best to cast the chamber and know exactly what you have.
There are 4 rounds but are you sure those 4 rounds are actually for that gun?
Have you slugged the bore on it to see what the bore measures?
I love old guns but I do not like to trust anyone on what it is, I want to know so that I do not blow it or myself sky high.
Drillings are so cool, held a 16x16 over 7x57 Rimmed, the gun was worth more than my car.
There are 4 rounds but are you sure those 4 rounds are actually for that gun?
Have you slugged the bore on it to see what the bore measures?
I love old guns but I do not like to trust anyone on what it is, I want to know so that I do not blow it or myself sky high.
Drillings are so cool, held a 16x16 over 7x57 Rimmed, the gun was worth more than my car.
S&B is a good budget choice. IME they are loaded stout but are not the most accurate option out there. Also production seem to vary quite a bit between lot numbers.
At present time, in Germany S&B in Mausers is commonly used on rifle ranges and shooting theatres to practice shooting a running boar. Quite a few users over there agree to the round's nickname "Schnell & Billig" (fast and cheap) for the offerings in the yellow/green box. So, do not expect best accuracy.
RR
At present time, in Germany S&B in Mausers is commonly used on rifle ranges and shooting theatres to practice shooting a running boar. Quite a few users over there agree to the round's nickname "Schnell & Billig" (fast and cheap) for the offerings in the yellow/green box. So, do not expect best accuracy.
RR
- Location
- pallisers triangle
I got told today that the S and B ammo the 8x57JR isn't on the approved list and isn't imported. also got told hornady makes it.
and yes I am sure the 4 rounds that came with the gun are for the gun
and yes I am sure the 4 rounds that came with the gun are for the gun
Here is Beater's round beside a 303 Brit:
One would have to measure, I'd say. It a kind looks like reloads and not factory. Personally, I have never shot a spitzer out of a rimmed 8x57 J/I.
RR
