Those of you who own a 9.3X57 chambered rifle built on a Mauser 98 action (as opposed to a M96) action, how much hotter do you load your rounds? If you use a program such as Quickload or GRT, what do you use as a max pressure for the M98? The reason that I ask is that I have been playing with GRT, and the program shows that if I were to use 58,000 PSI, as a max pressure for a M98 action, I can gain about 175 fps (in theory) with a 286 gr. bullet, as compared to a standard M96 load (45,000 PSI).
9.3 X 57 loads for Mauser 98 actions
- Thread starter pacobillie
- Start date
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Well, old guy here, but there is another approach. I do have an M96 9.3x57 for a purpose - a "punkin chucker" for 285 grain cast lead bullets. But I also have an M98 9.3x62, have had a Win Model 70 375 H&H and also have a 458 Win Mag. Probably need a 416 of some sort in there somewhere. I do not generally put much value in trying to make a cartridge into something it is not - easier on the brass, the action and on me. If that 175 fps or so is important, perhaps get a bigger cartridge?
Specifically for the 9.3x62, I get about 2,475 fps on my Shooting Chrony with Big Game powder and 286 grain Partitions, and about 2,650 fps with 250 grain Accubonds with Varget. These loads were published by John Barsness and pressure tested at the Western Power pressure lab in Montana. Not really thinking they need much improvement? Have real decent loads for my 338 Win Mag - 225 Accubonds at about 2,800 fps if I feel the need for more "reach".
Same idea with the 30 calibers - 308 Win - 30-06 - 308 Norma - 300 Win Mag - 300 Weatherby - maybe not much difference between the first two or last two, but some seem to think so - just pick how fast you want to send a 165 or a 180 Partition and get that one!!!
Specifically for the 9.3x62, I get about 2,475 fps on my Shooting Chrony with Big Game powder and 286 grain Partitions, and about 2,650 fps with 250 grain Accubonds with Varget. These loads were published by John Barsness and pressure tested at the Western Power pressure lab in Montana. Not really thinking they need much improvement? Have real decent loads for my 338 Win Mag - 225 Accubonds at about 2,800 fps if I feel the need for more "reach".
Same idea with the 30 calibers - 308 Win - 30-06 - 308 Norma - 300 Win Mag - 300 Weatherby - maybe not much difference between the first two or last two, but some seem to think so - just pick how fast you want to send a 165 or a 180 Partition and get that one!!!
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I don't oad that caliber, but found this article:
January 04, 2011By Jim Wilson
The 9.3mm hunting cartridges are capable of downing all North American big game as well as most of what Africa has to offer, and they are as popular in Africa and Europe as the classic .30-30 is here.
By Sheriff Jim Wilson, ,Handgun Editor
Rifles and cartridges of 9.3mm have never been greatly appreciated by the majority of American hunters, but they have been popular in Europe and Africa for a long time. With a nominal bullet diameter of .366 inch, they are to Europeans what .35-caliber cartridges with their .358-inch bullets are to those of us on this side of the Atlantic. The difference in bullet diameter is equal to the thickness of four pages in the magazine you now hold in your hands. This along with similar bullet weights and velocities adds up to similar performance as long as powder capacities and the chamber pressures to which they are loaded are about the same.
The 9.3x57mm Mauser, which is based on the 8x57mm Mauser case, is rated at about 2350 fps with a 232-grain bullet, putting it in the same league as the .358 Winchester. The 9.3x62mm Mauser and the 9.3x74R are capable of pushing a 286-grain bullet along at 2400 fps, which brings the performance of the .35 Whelen to mind. Most powerful of the bunch is the 9.3x64mm Brenneke, and its 286-grain bullet at 2700 fps enables it to do anything the .358 Norma Magnum is capable of doing. Other 9.3mm cartridges have come and gone, but when all is said and done, two have enjoyed the most popularity, so I will devote the remainder of my space to them.
9.3x62mm Mauser
The 9.3x62mm cartridge was developed by master gunsmith Otto Bock of Berlin, whose rifles became quite popular among German immigrants who colonized a sizeable chunk of the African continent at the turn of the 20th century. The plain-Jane 9.3mm sporter rifle went on to become to thousands of African farmers what the Winchester 94 in .30-30 became to the American cattle rancher.
Introduced in 1905, the 9.3x62 has a bullet diameter of .366 inch, and while it was originally loaded to a rather mild chamber pressure of less than 37,000 psi, it was eventually souped up a bit by various ammunition manufacturers.
Current factory ammo loaded in Germany by RWS is offered there with 258-, 285-, and 293-grain bullets at respective velocity ratings of 2560, 2430, and 2280 fps. For the Scandinavian market, the Norma catalog lists two loads: a 286-grain softnose at 2360 fps and a 231-grain PPC (Protected Power Cavity) at 2600 fps. Lapua ammunition used to be loaded with three bullet options, but now there are only two — 270-grain Naturalis (lead-free) at 2395 fps and 285-grain Mega at 2265 fps. Nosler has one load in its Custom Ammunition lineup, the 286-grain Partition at 2430 fps. I have yet to try the Nosler ammo on game, but I have taken moose with both Lapua loads and with the Norma 286-grain load, and their performance left nothing to be desired.
Of the few people I know who own rifles in 9.3x62mm, all but one sticks with handloads. There was a time when bullets were difficult to come by, but this no longer holds true. Swift offers its excellent A-Frame in 250- and 300-grain weights, and Nosler offers two options as well: 250-grain Ballistic Tip and 286-grain Partition. From Barnes, we have a couple of X-Bullets weighing 250 and 286 grains, and the Speer 270-grain semispitzer has been around for quite a long time. Hornady also offers a 286-grain bullet.
For all-around use, my favorite is the 250-grain A-Frame. With a sectional density about the same as that of a 180-grain bullet of .30 caliber and with the ability to retain a very large percentage of its weight during expansion, it is capable of handling any big-game animal in North America as well as most of what Africa has to offer. Recoil is also a bit less than with full-power loads using the more traditional 286-grain bullet.
I can think of several dozen cartridges that are more suitable for smaller game such as deer, but if I had to, I could get by on whitetails with the 9.3x62 loaded to 2500 fps with the Nosler 250-grain Ballistic Tip. Zero that bullet 3 inches high at 100 yards, and it will land about dead on the money at 200 yards and about half a body depth low on a big buck at 300 long paces.
In the past, it was common for those of us who owned rifles in 9.3x62mm to come up with a supply of cases by necking up .30-06 brass, trimming to an overall length of 2.430 inches, and moving the shoulder forward by fireforming. While I never heard of anyone getting into trouble when doing so, I have discontinued the practice simply because of the difference in base diameters of the two cartridges.
Most factory 9.3x62mm cases measure around .472 inch just forward of the extractor groove compared to somewhere in the neighborhood of .464 inch for the .30-06 case. The 9.3x62mm chamber is about .006 inch larger than the .30-06 chamber in that area, and when a case made from .30-06 brass is fired in a rifle chambered to 9.3x62mm Mauser, it is not supported by the chamber until it has bulged to a larger diameter than it was designed to withstand.
Firing a minimum-dimension case formed from the .30-06 in a maximum-dimension 9.3x62mm chamber could result in a ruptured case. This is why anyone who handloads this cartridge is wise to round up a supply of factory cases. Lapua cases are of excellent quality and are available from various sources; they can also be purchased online directly from Lapua. Nosler offers cases made by Norma, and they too are top-drawer in quality.
With the coming and going of each hunting season, more and more American hunters are discovering the 9.3x62mm. It shows by the fact that plenty of load data is now available in reloading manuals published by Hodgdon, Speer, Hornady, Swift, Nosler, Norma, and VihtaVuori. I find the same powders that work so well in the .35 Whelen with those bullet weights to work equally well in the 9.3x62mm. Standard primers have plenty of spark for igniting most powders in this cartridge, but anytime spherical powders, such as W760 and H414, will be used at temperatures below freezing, velocity can be more uniform when a magnum primer is used.
You won't find rifles in 9.3x62mm in every gunshop, but they are available. If I were shopping for one, I would look long and hard at the extremely affordable CZ 550 LUX. The Blaser R93 and the Model 24 from Ultra Light Arms are available in this caliber. Any rifle chambered for one of the .30-06 family of cartridges can be converted with no modification other than the installation of a custom aftermarket barrel.
During my life, I have owned two rifles in 9.3x62mm. One was a custom job with a Lothar Walther barrel built on the Remington Model 700 action. Soon after I carried the rifle on a bear hunt in Alaska, a good friend of mine talked me out of it, and since then, he has used it to take a couple moose, several elk, and a truckload of deer.
I still own the other nine-three — a Sako Model 75 — and like most of my hunting rifles, it has a story or two of its own. I first hunted with this one in Finland, the country where it was made. It had been issued to me at the Sako factory in Riihimaki, and when I checked it out at a shooting range near where I would be hunting with Sako ammo, it immediately began to stack three bullets inside an inch at 100 yards. I liked the rifle then, and I liked it even more after using it to take a nice moose. Fact of the matter is, I became so fond of it that I asked my friends at Sako to ship it to me upon my return home. It is one of those rifles that I don't get around to using a lot, but I enjoy owning and shooting it so much, I doubt if I will ever part with it.
9.3 x 62mm MAUSER LOADS
BULLET POWER (Type POWER (Grs.) VELOCITY (fps.) Sako Model 75 Norma 232-gr. Oryx N-202 60.0 2577 Norma 232-gr. Vulcan N-201 59.0 2582 Barnes 250-gr. Triple Shock IMR-4064 57.0 2519 Nosler 250-gr. Ballistic Tip Varget 56.0 2468 Swift 250-gr. A-Frame Reloder 15 58.0 2538 Lapua 270-gr. Naturalis H335 58.0 2455 Speer 270-gr. SS W760 60.0 2431 Barnes 286-gr. Triple-Shock H414 57.0 2379 Nosler 286-gr. Partition VV N140 56.0 2310 Swift 300-gr. A-Frame Reloder 15 57.0 23.55 Lapua 220-gr. Naturalis Factory Load 2610 Norma 231-gr. PPC Factory Load 2586 Sako 225-gr. RSN Factory Load 2588 Sako-250-gr. X-Bullet Factory Load 2401 Lapua 270-gr. Naturalis Factory Load 2334 Lapua 285-gr. Mega Factory Load 2251 Norma 286-gr. Alaska Factory Load 2378 Nosler 286-gr. Partition Factory Load 2325
Notes: Velocity is the average of five or more rounds measured 12 feet from the muzzle of a 23-inch barrel. Lapua cases and CCI 200 primers were used in all handloads. Powder charges are maximum and should be reduced by 10 percent for starting loads.
I enjoy hunting with the 9.3x62 for the same reason I enjoyed hunting with the .25-06 and .35 Whelen back when they were wildcats; it is different, and you don't see every hunter in camp toting one. Of course, this puts you on your own if for whatever reason you need to borrow some ammo, but since this has never happened to me, I seldom give it a second thought.
January 04, 2011By Jim Wilson
The 9.3mm hunting cartridges are capable of downing all North American big game as well as most of what Africa has to offer, and they are as popular in Africa and Europe as the classic .30-30 is here.
By Sheriff Jim Wilson, ,Handgun Editor
Rifles and cartridges of 9.3mm have never been greatly appreciated by the majority of American hunters, but they have been popular in Europe and Africa for a long time. With a nominal bullet diameter of .366 inch, they are to Europeans what .35-caliber cartridges with their .358-inch bullets are to those of us on this side of the Atlantic. The difference in bullet diameter is equal to the thickness of four pages in the magazine you now hold in your hands. This along with similar bullet weights and velocities adds up to similar performance as long as powder capacities and the chamber pressures to which they are loaded are about the same.
The 9.3x57mm Mauser, which is based on the 8x57mm Mauser case, is rated at about 2350 fps with a 232-grain bullet, putting it in the same league as the .358 Winchester. The 9.3x62mm Mauser and the 9.3x74R are capable of pushing a 286-grain bullet along at 2400 fps, which brings the performance of the .35 Whelen to mind. Most powerful of the bunch is the 9.3x64mm Brenneke, and its 286-grain bullet at 2700 fps enables it to do anything the .358 Norma Magnum is capable of doing. Other 9.3mm cartridges have come and gone, but when all is said and done, two have enjoyed the most popularity, so I will devote the remainder of my space to them.
9.3x62mm Mauser
The 9.3x62mm cartridge was developed by master gunsmith Otto Bock of Berlin, whose rifles became quite popular among German immigrants who colonized a sizeable chunk of the African continent at the turn of the 20th century. The plain-Jane 9.3mm sporter rifle went on to become to thousands of African farmers what the Winchester 94 in .30-30 became to the American cattle rancher.
Introduced in 1905, the 9.3x62 has a bullet diameter of .366 inch, and while it was originally loaded to a rather mild chamber pressure of less than 37,000 psi, it was eventually souped up a bit by various ammunition manufacturers.
Current factory ammo loaded in Germany by RWS is offered there with 258-, 285-, and 293-grain bullets at respective velocity ratings of 2560, 2430, and 2280 fps. For the Scandinavian market, the Norma catalog lists two loads: a 286-grain softnose at 2360 fps and a 231-grain PPC (Protected Power Cavity) at 2600 fps. Lapua ammunition used to be loaded with three bullet options, but now there are only two — 270-grain Naturalis (lead-free) at 2395 fps and 285-grain Mega at 2265 fps. Nosler has one load in its Custom Ammunition lineup, the 286-grain Partition at 2430 fps. I have yet to try the Nosler ammo on game, but I have taken moose with both Lapua loads and with the Norma 286-grain load, and their performance left nothing to be desired.
Of the few people I know who own rifles in 9.3x62mm, all but one sticks with handloads. There was a time when bullets were difficult to come by, but this no longer holds true. Swift offers its excellent A-Frame in 250- and 300-grain weights, and Nosler offers two options as well: 250-grain Ballistic Tip and 286-grain Partition. From Barnes, we have a couple of X-Bullets weighing 250 and 286 grains, and the Speer 270-grain semispitzer has been around for quite a long time. Hornady also offers a 286-grain bullet.
For all-around use, my favorite is the 250-grain A-Frame. With a sectional density about the same as that of a 180-grain bullet of .30 caliber and with the ability to retain a very large percentage of its weight during expansion, it is capable of handling any big-game animal in North America as well as most of what Africa has to offer. Recoil is also a bit less than with full-power loads using the more traditional 286-grain bullet.
I can think of several dozen cartridges that are more suitable for smaller game such as deer, but if I had to, I could get by on whitetails with the 9.3x62 loaded to 2500 fps with the Nosler 250-grain Ballistic Tip. Zero that bullet 3 inches high at 100 yards, and it will land about dead on the money at 200 yards and about half a body depth low on a big buck at 300 long paces.
In the past, it was common for those of us who owned rifles in 9.3x62mm to come up with a supply of cases by necking up .30-06 brass, trimming to an overall length of 2.430 inches, and moving the shoulder forward by fireforming. While I never heard of anyone getting into trouble when doing so, I have discontinued the practice simply because of the difference in base diameters of the two cartridges.
Most factory 9.3x62mm cases measure around .472 inch just forward of the extractor groove compared to somewhere in the neighborhood of .464 inch for the .30-06 case. The 9.3x62mm chamber is about .006 inch larger than the .30-06 chamber in that area, and when a case made from .30-06 brass is fired in a rifle chambered to 9.3x62mm Mauser, it is not supported by the chamber until it has bulged to a larger diameter than it was designed to withstand.
Firing a minimum-dimension case formed from the .30-06 in a maximum-dimension 9.3x62mm chamber could result in a ruptured case. This is why anyone who handloads this cartridge is wise to round up a supply of factory cases. Lapua cases are of excellent quality and are available from various sources; they can also be purchased online directly from Lapua. Nosler offers cases made by Norma, and they too are top-drawer in quality.
With the coming and going of each hunting season, more and more American hunters are discovering the 9.3x62mm. It shows by the fact that plenty of load data is now available in reloading manuals published by Hodgdon, Speer, Hornady, Swift, Nosler, Norma, and VihtaVuori. I find the same powders that work so well in the .35 Whelen with those bullet weights to work equally well in the 9.3x62mm. Standard primers have plenty of spark for igniting most powders in this cartridge, but anytime spherical powders, such as W760 and H414, will be used at temperatures below freezing, velocity can be more uniform when a magnum primer is used.
You won't find rifles in 9.3x62mm in every gunshop, but they are available. If I were shopping for one, I would look long and hard at the extremely affordable CZ 550 LUX. The Blaser R93 and the Model 24 from Ultra Light Arms are available in this caliber. Any rifle chambered for one of the .30-06 family of cartridges can be converted with no modification other than the installation of a custom aftermarket barrel.
During my life, I have owned two rifles in 9.3x62mm. One was a custom job with a Lothar Walther barrel built on the Remington Model 700 action. Soon after I carried the rifle on a bear hunt in Alaska, a good friend of mine talked me out of it, and since then, he has used it to take a couple moose, several elk, and a truckload of deer.
I still own the other nine-three — a Sako Model 75 — and like most of my hunting rifles, it has a story or two of its own. I first hunted with this one in Finland, the country where it was made. It had been issued to me at the Sako factory in Riihimaki, and when I checked it out at a shooting range near where I would be hunting with Sako ammo, it immediately began to stack three bullets inside an inch at 100 yards. I liked the rifle then, and I liked it even more after using it to take a nice moose. Fact of the matter is, I became so fond of it that I asked my friends at Sako to ship it to me upon my return home. It is one of those rifles that I don't get around to using a lot, but I enjoy owning and shooting it so much, I doubt if I will ever part with it.
9.3 x 62mm MAUSER LOADS
BULLET POWER (Type POWER (Grs.) VELOCITY (fps.) Sako Model 75 Norma 232-gr. Oryx N-202 60.0 2577 Norma 232-gr. Vulcan N-201 59.0 2582 Barnes 250-gr. Triple Shock IMR-4064 57.0 2519 Nosler 250-gr. Ballistic Tip Varget 56.0 2468 Swift 250-gr. A-Frame Reloder 15 58.0 2538 Lapua 270-gr. Naturalis H335 58.0 2455 Speer 270-gr. SS W760 60.0 2431 Barnes 286-gr. Triple-Shock H414 57.0 2379 Nosler 286-gr. Partition VV N140 56.0 2310 Swift 300-gr. A-Frame Reloder 15 57.0 23.55 Lapua 220-gr. Naturalis Factory Load 2610 Norma 231-gr. PPC Factory Load 2586 Sako 225-gr. RSN Factory Load 2588 Sako-250-gr. X-Bullet Factory Load 2401 Lapua 270-gr. Naturalis Factory Load 2334 Lapua 285-gr. Mega Factory Load 2251 Norma 286-gr. Alaska Factory Load 2378 Nosler 286-gr. Partition Factory Load 2325
Notes: Velocity is the average of five or more rounds measured 12 feet from the muzzle of a 23-inch barrel. Lapua cases and CCI 200 primers were used in all handloads. Powder charges are maximum and should be reduced by 10 percent for starting loads.
I enjoy hunting with the 9.3x62 for the same reason I enjoyed hunting with the .25-06 and .35 Whelen back when they were wildcats; it is different, and you don't see every hunter in camp toting one. Of course, this puts you on your own if for whatever reason you need to borrow some ammo, but since this has never happened to me, I seldom give it a second thought.
I have a m98 in 9.3 x 57. From what I understand that the cartridge itself the pressures are quite low, lower than the 6.5 x 55 and a lot lower than the 9.3 x 62. I have used the Norma load book for ideas. The Norma bullets are pricy though. I have loaded more of the PPU bullets. As Potash miner said too, I have a couple molds in 9.3 that are fun to use. Its my opinion that the limitations of the cartridge with its slow and heavy bullets make it more like a 30/30 distance rifle with far more knock down power. The quality of the metal and the stock of those rifles is second to none. It would make a great moose gun in the bush.
Many years ago, I had Bevan King barrel me up a pair of Turkish 98 Mauser actions in 9.3X57 using Chip Donelly barrels. Without boring you with all the details, Ball C2 and 286 gr Norma Tri-Clad jacket bullets at 2300 fps were the everyday load for both rifles.
No expanded primer pockets, cases that seemed to last forever, and very satisfactory accuracy for hunting was the recipe. Sighted three inches high at 100 yards, dead on was close to 200, and five or six inches low at 250.
Ted
No expanded primer pockets, cases that seemed to last forever, and very satisfactory accuracy for hunting was the recipe. Sighted three inches high at 100 yards, dead on was close to 200, and five or six inches low at 250.
Ted
Thanks Ted! This is part of what I was looking for. Your own experience corroborates my thinking.
I am currently getting 2150 fps with a Norma Alaska 286 gr. bullet out of my Husqvarna M96 actioned rifle, with H4895. GRT tells me that this corresponds to about 45000 PSI. I am considering buying an M98 action rifle. If I input 58000 PSI as a max pressure in GRT, it tells me that that I can get an extra 150 fps or close to that. 58000 PSI is the official MAP for the X62 in those same M98 actions.
This makes sense, since the powder capacity differential between the X57 and the X62 is less that the delta between .308 and 30-06. The latter two have about a 100 fps differential with most bullet weights. The X57's main handicap is the lower MAP, due to the supposedly weaker actions. If that parameter is changed, the X57 can bridge some, albeit not all of the gap to the X62 velocities.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I do not recall why Barsness chose to take the 9.3x62 up to 30-06 MAP limit - 60,000 PSI - but he did explain his rationale in his write-ups - I simply do not remember what that was. I do recall his, and Dr. Don Heath's, writings pointing out that the 9.3x62 made its reputation with German settlers in Africa with 286 grain softs and solids at about 2,200 fps (?) - apparently it did all the "heavy lifting" that a British sportsman, at that time, would chose a 375 H&H to do.
I suspect the rationale was the same or similar to my getting Bevan to chamber the two rifles for me. I had used both the 358 Win and the 358 Norma Mag for years, and wondered about something in between other than the Whelen. The 9.3X57 was shown in Norma's information as being loaded to 37,500CUP in factory ammo. This was to accommodate the very early Model 88 rifles that were chambered for it. Wondering what the "little" case could do at 55,000 or so was the genesis for our project.
This was long before all the 9.3X57s were being imported from Europe, as they are today from TradeEx and others, so there were no rifles around. I did have a lovely 9.5X57 Mannlicher Schoenauer that I had used a bit, and had already been hunting with the 9.3X62 for a few years. Bevan said he would buy the chambering reamer if I had two actions barreled up, so we were on the way. He had not started making 9.3 barrels yet, so ordered two from Donnely.
We were on our way to loading the '57 to much higher pressures in actions that could easily handle the pressures generated by 270 Win, 30-06, and 8X57 rifles, and the rest, as they say, became history.
The first game I personally witnessed taken with one of the rifles was a very nice black bear. I had given one of the rifles to a bush pilot up here, Brian Hardy, and was with him when he put the bear down with a single shot using a Speer 250. They made this bullet for a few years before increasing the weight to the current 270 grains now produced.
A friend of mine calls it the 358 Winchester magnum, with a small m.
Ted
This was long before all the 9.3X57s were being imported from Europe, as they are today from TradeEx and others, so there were no rifles around. I did have a lovely 9.5X57 Mannlicher Schoenauer that I had used a bit, and had already been hunting with the 9.3X62 for a few years. Bevan said he would buy the chambering reamer if I had two actions barreled up, so we were on the way. He had not started making 9.3 barrels yet, so ordered two from Donnely.
We were on our way to loading the '57 to much higher pressures in actions that could easily handle the pressures generated by 270 Win, 30-06, and 8X57 rifles, and the rest, as they say, became history.
The first game I personally witnessed taken with one of the rifles was a very nice black bear. I had given one of the rifles to a bush pilot up here, Brian Hardy, and was with him when he put the bear down with a single shot using a Speer 250. They made this bullet for a few years before increasing the weight to the current 270 grains now produced.
A friend of mine calls it the 358 Winchester magnum, with a small m.
Ted
- Location
- Western Manitoba
"Lighter" bullets in 9.3 - I had read of 232 grain bullets, but never have seen them for sale. The 250 Accubonds are the lightest that I have tried. Most that I read is about going the other way - specialty cast bullets up into 350-ish grains, etc. A "punkin chucker" - it wants to lob "punkins"!
How much did that set you back?
wow very good tool. can you post some pics of it?
The stem clips into the ram in place of a shell holder, comes with the die. I use Lee resizing lubricant on the bullets, it worked a little better than Imperial. Hornady bullets seemed harder to resize than Speer, maybe harder lead? Bullets come out the top right at.366".
