9mm big enough?

Agent666 said:
If ATC Type-3 rules were laxer, and barrel length laws were scrapped, I'd carry a .38 snubbie, with a bobbed hammer. Too much worry about lint and whatnot with autoloaders. And any gun tells a would-be human assailant "do not touch." CIT crews carried 4" .38s for years, and robberies were rare.
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Yes, I like revolvers and if I were going to spend on something more suitable than my HiPower for concealed carry it would probably be a Ruger LCR. In my post that you quoted I was only saying I wouldn't replace it with a .45 (which most of us usually think of in an auto) for that role.
 
Sinasta said:
And I can show you a video where a dirtbag was hit 5 times in the chest with a 357 and survived.
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Just look at the LAPD officer Stacy Lim attacked by the thug - the .357 bullet ravaged her upper body when it nicked the lower portion of her heart, damaged her liver, destroyed her spleen, and exited through the center of her back, still with enough energy to penetrate her vehicle door, where it was later found.
She returned fire hitting her assailant five times (if I can remember correctly) with her 9 mm Beretta BTW....and survived to become an instructor.
She and the BG were running back and forth in the alley while firing at each other in the meantime.
All this BS:

sobo4303 said:
As my 357 - with leads, will stop anyone in their tracks at close range if they are so inclined on doing me harm.
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is just ignorant bragging that may kill the author one day - pure stupidity nothing else.
Even worse - the idea of pointing the gun at someone and hoping to scare him off.
If You are going for the gun - better use it and do it fast.
People can run, talk, laugh, scream or even act like some freaking super-human after being shot with the handgun.
You have far more better chance to defend yourself with the long gun, but even than - don't be so sure about the odds.
Mentioned by me earlier in this thread Jim Cirillo - real gunfighter from NYPD stated that he saw people being shot with 12 gauge slug and still fighting back...something to think about I guess....
 
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Seems like people forget...or don't know?

The .45ACP was designed to kill soft targets with massive damage...like people!!! --- it's like a hammer hit

The 9mm was made for penetration...like through heavy winter coats!!! --- it's like an ice pick stab

Both can kill...they just do it in different ways!!!
 
jeffcarr88 said:
Seems like people forget...or don't know?

The .45ACP was designed to kill soft targets with massive damage...like people!!! --- it's like a hammer hit

The 9mm was made for penetration...like through heavy winter coats!!! --- it's like an ice pick stab

Both can kill...they just do it in different ways!!!
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Not sure if this post is serious. If it is, this is will be my last post on CGN.
 
For fu#@'s sake. Home defense is close range and anything from .22 to .50 will do the trick if you can put it anywhere near center mass. It's not about the caliber. It's about a reliable weapon that you are familiar with and are comfortable with.

If you are talking long range or target shooting then yeah, there's a difference. For home defense... It's up to you.
 
Sinasta said:
Not sure if this post is serious. If it is, this is will be my last post on CGN.
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In all fairness to @jeffcarr88, there are so many theories and bitter arguments over this.

As a civilian/amateur, if I was selecting sidearms for a police department, or CIT company, I'd pick:

*A pistol that has passed some sort of torture test (NIJ, etc.), with at least a 4" barrel.

*9x19.

*Standard-pressure ammo, 115-27gr.

*Preferably an external hammer; if striker-fired, something that doesn't require a trigger pull for takedown.

*A rigid holster, with nothing that can interdict the trigger.

And I would make sure that lots of practice ammo was bought, with frequent qualifications, and blue guns for training.
 
Agent666 said:
But even a .357Sig won't stop a cougar.
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Where did anyone mention .357 SIG? .45 ACP will drop a black bear or a cougar easily enough.

Agent666 said:
In all fairness to @jeffcarr88, there are so many theories and bitter arguments over this.

As a civilian/amateur, if I was selecting sidearms for a police department, or CIT company, I'd pick:

*A pistol that has passed some sort of torture test (NIJ, etc.), with at least a 4" barrel.

*9x19.

*Standard-pressure ammo, 115-27gr.

*Preferably an external hammer; if striker-fired, something that doesn't require a trigger pull for takedown.

*A rigid holster, with nothing that can interdict the trigger.

And I would make sure that lots of practice ammo was bought, with frequent qualifications, and blue guns for training.
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So do the same thing that most police forces are doing already? Although it's mostly half and half 9mm and .40 S&W these days....
 
Agent666 said:
Lint finds its way into everything (e.g., the extractor and slightly greasy barrel, peaking out of the ejection port), and moisture from perspiration kills primers. And have you ever been in the back country, slipped and ended up in silty muck? I've done this, and I dread to think what that would do to a Glock 20 that I was depending on protecting me from a cougar. And yes, one should use a holster...but a good one:
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So basically your whole lint theory is to justify you wanting to carry a revolver. Which is fine, but that doesn't make auto loaders more susceptible to lint. And if you think slipping an falling in mud will magically stop a glock or another modern auto loader form working you need to do more research.

Shawn
 
misanthropist said:
Come on...I am almost positive that when the FBI or the US Army select calibers for ballistics testing, they use 2x4s and pumpkins. Those media are a perfect analogue to terminal effects on human bodies.


Which is important, because obviously massive law enforcement and military organizations don't have any actual data gleaned from thousands of shootings in both domestic shootings and military firefights to look at or anything. And even if they did, there's no way one of their foremost experts would every post about it on the internet.


And even if he did, nobody would have a link to his advice on pistol caliber selection in their signature.


And even if all the stars aligned and the military and law enforcement did have actual scientific testing on this specific subject, AND one of their foremost experts posted about it on the internet, AND somebody on this forum posted a link to that information in their sig, what are the odds he would find this thread and post in it with a specific direction to that signature so everyone could find out whether 9mm works or not?


I would say those odds are practically zero. So everyone should probably go with a combination of speculation, anecdotes, and unsubstantiated opinion.
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Do you get the felling your post went over everyones head?

The signature line ought to be a sticky.

Take Care

Bob
 
Wow. Another CGN thread ruined by guys who don't want to take the time to do the research, or even read what's posted in the thread!

Misanthropist posted a link that should be the end of the discussion.

But yet, we still have people posting about "flying trash cans", members who take their "testing" on hard drives and golf balls as hard evidence, and guys worried about getting pocket lint stuck in their pistol???

It truly boggles the mind.
 
This sh!t never gets old.

Is it elitist of me to think that *maybe* CGN could have a specific subforum with higher expectations for the content of posts enforced? Where we might have discussions informed by authentic empirical research and reason?

Yeah, it's probably elitist. But I'd still sign up.
 
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