9mm or 40 S&W???

Happypillz said:
Using the stats of a Police force for Guns well that's a bit foolish mainly because they tend to have older and frankly crappier stuff.
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You are trying to make an argument and then come up with this gem. Really? "They buy crappy stuff" The Greek philosophers said flies were made of squishy stuff because when you crushed a fly they squished. Your statement makes about as much sense.

Most shooters will never notice the difference from one caliber to another. If the gun does fail eg a broken slide, the fails are not often due to excessive round counts compared to what a military or police firearm might accumulate in service. Failure stats from those sources or the testing they do has validity in the context of the environment their firearms find themselves in. Is their testing/experience valid? Of course it is for them, and it is for us if we accept it for what it is. If you want absolute longevity in a firearm and want to know what the reported results are for one Department or organization then the information is out there. Some find it useful others recognize the information may not be relevant to them so they seek guidance from other sources. But to say, the information from various police or military sources is skewed because they use "old crappy stuff" is childish in the extreme and not particularly factual.

Take Care

Bob
 
I have an M&P9 as well as a few other 9mm firearms.

For shooting paper it's the most affordable and common. Not sure why you would want to spend more to punch holes in paper.
 
kablam said:
I have an M&P9 as well as a few other 9mm firearms.

For shooting paper it's the most affordable and common. Not sure why you would want to spend more to punch holes in paper.
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Ego my boy ego and some of us participate in the shooting sports as well. The M&P 9MM is a pretty nice gun for IDPA though. Love mine for that purpose....and if Zombies ever come down the street....we all have our own thoughts on what girls we marry, guns fall into the same catigory. I suspect the females feel the same way about men. :>)

Take Care

Bob
 
Happypillz said:
So you think Shooting matches are not a good place to find out where guns fail? Production wise I've seen more Glocks have problems then any other platform in production. CZ seems to be a champ then again Tanfo are ungodly good as well.
I've seen a Baretta brand new from the store crack its slide after 300 rounds during black badge.
I have a Tanfo Match small frame (9mm) and shoot 40. 15 thousand rounds so far. I have read most of the forums on this gun and neither the 9mm or the 40 has problems on the same lower.
I have shot everything from reload to factory no issues.

Everyone has their preference. I shoot the 9mm but simply don't like it. Prefer the 40 with a minor load if I do that.

Using the stats of a Police force for Guns well that's a bit foolish mainly because they tend to have older and frankly crappier stuff.
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These comments make it clear that you and I are at different levels in this conversation. To the OP, there's some good info in this thread. Regardless of what you buy, enjoy and be safe!
 
TT1900 said:
Correct. The real world and the competition world are two very different places that place very different demands on a firearm.
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Exactly! I hope piperdown continues to post on this forum. We need folks with actual experience who are objective in their comments. Some folks get so butt hurt if any comment is made that might impinge on their choice of a blaster.

Take Care

Bob
 
xldbldbl said:
I agree with you on the Glocks as iI have seen the same, but Beretta being a piece of ####, well we will just have to agree to disagree. The Beretta's in my collection have been the most reliable of any of the others, clean or dirty sometimes in excess of 1000 rounds before cleaning and I have yet to have a malfunction that wasnt ammo related and even then only twice from reloaded range brass split cases leaving brass inside the action.
I have 2 over the 50k mark and my last ipsc gun went 3 years with no issues before buying the m9a3 last feb which now has over 8k with no issues. My 96 has both 40 and 357 sig barrels and no issues with it with either round. I know of several berettas well over the 100k that still work flawlessly and even Slavex had one he used for competition he said went 150+k.
Beretta has been used my more police and military around the world than any other single brand for a reason.

Here is a pretty good article on the M9 written by someone who saw first had how much abuse they take at the hands of the US military.
ht tps://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/beretta-m9-gets-respect/
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Berettas are even more reliable then glocks, in the fact that they are not affected by limp wristing. They are great guns.
 
piperdown said:
I thought this was a discussion on 9 or .40 and the merits of either cartridge (specifically as it relates to wear and tear)? Now we're into ergonomics and bricks and paper weights etc.... I don't typically chime in on a lot that goes on here. I do however speak up when I see valid questions asked by people that want information, which is why I jumped into this one. The web page posted is a summary, if you want official FBI data track it down, it's out there and I'm sure you can Google fu it with some limited effort.

As to the original issue, I'd be curious to know your experience with .40 and 9mm platforms? What pistols have you shot to failure personally (not seen...)? What is 'a lot of Beretta's? Any documented round counts? Factory ammo or handloads? What other platforms have you actually shot (not seen or heard) into 10,000 plus rounds? What have you heard at the armorer schools? Any credible sources (LE or otherwise)that have experienced issues with either cartridge? Lay it out and we can have an informed discussion.

Btw, I know there are more than a few other choices out there, thanks for the tip ��
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Laugh2
 
piperdown said:
I maintained a fleet of about 160 Beretta 96D's for several years. The failure rate on the .40 Beretta vs 9 was well documented in a number of police agencies in Canada and the US in the late 90's. I personally shot my issue 96 literally to pieces (documented round count). Went from those to Glock's and although the Glocks are far more resilient, they still take a beating from .40. More recoil impulse equals more maintenance and parts replacement. I shot a .40 Glock to pieces as well, but it took 4x longer than the Beretta. I carry a Glock 17 now and I'll do my best to shoot it to failure but I suspect I'll be retired before I can make that happen.
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Hey man, speaking of Berettas. I have a Beretta 92fs on the way,,, at about how many rounds would you need to change out the recoil spring? Or barrel? Or Recoil spring rod?
 
TT1900 said:
Correct. The real world and the competition world are two very different places that place very different demands on a firearm.
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I think competitions are far the best place to find out failure rates of Firearms. Production will by far take a OFM and push it to the limit. High Round counts, different loads etc.. Where as a cop gun will what see how many rounds compared? You are simply wrong here.

Maybe you are under the impression that Production is not indicative of of stock firearms.
 
GunGuy34 said:
Hey man, speaking of Berettas. I have a Beretta 92fs on the way,,, at about how many rounds would you need to change out the recoil spring? Or barrel? Or Recoil spring rod?
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I shoot between 6k to 10k a year and replace the recoil spring about once a year, that being said I am running a light spring for IPSC minor PF loads. Springs are cheap, if you shoot a fair amount replace it once every year or 2, I replaced all my beretta's with steel recoil guide rods when I first get them, replace again when you see wear but I have yet to put a second one in any I have owned. I have never replaced a barrel, bought a 357 sig barrel for my 96 but niot because there was anything wrong withe the .40, just wanted both.
 
xldbldbl said:
I shoot between 6k to 10k a year and replace the recoil spring about once a year, that being said I am running a light spring for IPSC minor PF loads. Springs are cheap, if you shoot a fair amount replace it once every year or 2, I replaced all my beretta's with steel recoil guide rods when I first get them, replace again when you see wear but I have yet to put a second one in any I have owned. I have never replaced a barrel, bought a 357 sig barrel for my 96 but niot because there was anything wrong withe the .40, just wanted both.
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Where did you order the parts?
 
Happypillz said:
I think competitions are far the best place to find out failure rates of Firearms. Production will by far take a OFM and push it to the limit. High Round counts, different loads etc.. Where as a cop gun will what see how many rounds compared? You are simply wrong here.

Maybe you are under the impression that Production is not indicative of of stock firearms.
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When the Military and Police Forces issue a competition for new service handguns, I've never seen failure rates from competition guns taken into account.
 
GunGuy34 said:
Berettas are even more reliable then glocks, in the fact that they are not affected by limp wristing. They are great guns.
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Limp wristing has NOTHING to do with the gun and is entirely user related. I have tried to limp wrist my Glocks and just can't make it happen. Guess mine are broke.
 
Kidd X said:
Limp wristing has NOTHING to do with the gun and is entirely user related. I have tried to limp wrist my Glocks and just can't make it happen. Guess mine are broke.
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No chit. Check out youtube. Glocks are well known for problems with limp wristing. While not a flaw of the gun per say it still happens. It does not with berettas.
 
Kidd X said:
Do you blame the gun for your missed shots as well??
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Lol you joined in april this year and have a 92 percent trader rating already. Worry about yourself kid or you wont last long around here. Ill add you to ignore. I like my good deals on the EE to go to adults.

TDC is that you lol
 
GunGuy34 said:
Lol you joined in april this year and have a 92 percent trader rating already. Worry about yourself kid or you wont last long around here. Ill add you to ignore. I like my good deals on the EE to go to adults.

TDC is that you lol
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It was a simple question, which I guess has hit a nerve. Sorry for your illness.
 
Happypillz said:
Maybe you are under the impression that Production is not indicative of of stock firearms.
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I'm under the impression that gun games are just that, games, and reflect very little on real world conditions. I'm also under the impression that there is nothing practical about IPSC.

I get it, you like your Tanfo and like IPSC. That's great. But it certainly doesn't qualify you to the level of an armourer for a department. You have a sample size of one and anecdotal evidence at best. He's probably seen hundreds if not thousands of weapons and been responsible for making them run 100%.

Back on topic. Unless you have to meet power factor 9mm does everything a .40 will but more economically.
 
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