A .30-06 poll
- Thread starter Dustin
- Start date
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
Im just getting aquainted with a Mauser m96 in 30.06 right now. well see how that goes.
My point exactly! ...*was* used. 1903. It's an obsolete piece of trash; you need a wizzum!
Actually, my only real beef with the '06 is that it's so damn uninteresting, yet has still somehow become a 'sacred cow' of the shooting community. ( And sacred cows make good hamburgers!) It doesn't do anything that a hundred more interesting cartridges could also do, yet everyone gets all weepy and emotional about it, and often downright hostile when you point out that the '06 isn't anything all that special.
Actually, my only real beef with the '06 is that it's so damn uninteresting, yet has still somehow become a 'sacred cow' of the shooting community. ( And sacred cows make good hamburgers!) It doesn't do anything that a hundred more interesting cartridges could also do, yet everyone gets all weepy and emotional about it, and often downright hostile when you point out that the '06 isn't anything all that special.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
no .30-06 but a mess of .308s, dont those count? 
if .30-06 is bread and butter, a .308 is bread and non-hydrogenated margarine
if .30-06 is bread and butter, a .308 is bread and non-hydrogenated margarine
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Versatility is what makes the '06 special. It can fill the bill as a powerful rifle without the recoil, yet if you drop the bore size to .270 or even 7mm, the smaller rounds don't cut it in the willows with a bear. It can be loaded to take small game for the pot, but agreed, anyone who handloads can do this with any cartridge. It can shoot as flat as a .270, yet it is cheaper to load than the magnums. I'm really interested to know, what single cartridge you would choose as more versatile? The .375 H&H is renowned world wide as the most versatile big game cartridge, but the '06 does more. For example, try to shoot 100 rounds of full power .375 from prone in an afternoon, yet it can be done with the .30/06, and result in a good score.
Clearly the '06 is a capable and versatile cartridge. Is a .300 magnum as versatile, I don't think so. Is a .308 more accurate? Perhaps in some rifles, but not necessarily when we compare hunting rifles. The .30/06 has a velocity limit that makes it useful with traditionally manufactured bullets in most bullet weights. The small bore high velocity numbers require premiums. A .460 is more powerful, but only the recoil hardened can use it effectively. A green horn can learn to shoot the '06 effectively with only a few rounds fired. I don't see what's not to like.
"Actually, my only real beef with the '06 is that it's so damn uninteresting, yet has still somehow become a 'sacred cow' of the shooting community. ( And sacred cows make good hamburgers!) It doesn't do anything that a hundred more interesting cartridges could also do, yet everyone gets all weepy and emotional about it, and often downright hostile when you point out that the '06 isn't anything all that special."
Well, it is still very common and has good stopping power, but it doesn't kick as hard as the more powerful magnum rounds.
Well, it is still very common and has good stopping power, but it doesn't kick as hard as the more powerful magnum rounds.
- Location
- Manitoulin Island
Hard to choose which answer to poll. I use mine for moose, and .257 for deer. Equal use wasn't an option so I went with Primary.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about, right there. Burn the witch who does not worship at the altar of the 30-06, and dares to point out the heresy that there are, in fact, many many other cartridges out there every bit 'as good' as the 30-06
The 30-06 is undeniably a useful and versatile cartridge. But, it's HARDLY alone in that regard, and certainly isn't anything special. There's no compelling reason to choose a 30-06 over (say) a 270 - unless you plan to hunt mostly moose and big stuff. But then, there's no compelling reason to choose a 30-06 over a 338WM for that type of hunting. For a hunter who shoots an even mix of deer, moose and bear on the same hunts, there's no disadvantages to choosing a 308, or a 338, or a 35 whelen, or a 7mm08, or a 270, or whatever you want. They'll work, and none of them (30-06 included) is particularly well suited to ALL tasks you might one day ask of it.
So, let's recap the myths of the great 30-06:
Flat as a 270:
I doubt it, unless you're comparing heavy bullets in the 270 to lighter bullets in the 30-06, in which case the 270 would very likely penetrate better. Discussion which has better stopping power is a topic for another thread, but it's plenty obvious that 270's have taken every sort of game that 30-06's have. The difference between the two is unarguably a small one at most.
Versatility, and 'all around-ness'
There's no such thing. A gun ideally suited to take an elk is going to be unnecessarily powerful for deer. An ideal deer gun, too small to be ideal on elk. The 30-06 leans more to the 'too power for the small stuff, too small for the big stuff' side of the equation. The 'all around' gun is a complete myth. As a shooter, YOU need to decide whcih gun suites MOST of your needs, MOST of the time. There is NO cartridge out there ideally suited for both grizzly, AND pronghorn. As a sportsman, you have to decide which abilities are less important to YOU, and compromise accordingly. Or, better yet, get more than one rifle.
Cheaper to reload than the magnums:
pennies on the dollar. 60 grains of powder in the 30-06, 75 grains in the magnum. Brass about the same price, same for projectiles and primers. So 15 grains of powder, then; what, $.06? And, the unstated corollary to your statement is that the 30-06 is more expensive to reload than the 308. So which is it, then - is higher cost a good thing, a bad thing, or doesn't' really matter?
Less recoil than a 375:
So? The 375 has greater stopping power. And, in a hunting situation who would fire 100 rounds, prone, at full power? Granted, the 375 probably isn't the best gun to practice with, especially for a newbie, but neither is a 30-06.
Capable and useful:
Sure, but so is the 308, 270, 7mm08, 65x55, 260, 7x57, 8x57, 280, 7mm mag, 300 mag, etc.
300 magnum as versatile?:
that's a subjective judgment. Define the parameters better. It's absolutely undeniable that the 300WM can accomplish anything the 30-06 can, and more. The only price to pay is slightly more recoil and a few pennies per pop more cash. But, if you define versatility as the ability to be useful in a wider range of circumstances, then the 300 easily fits that bill.
308 more accurate:
perhaps, perhaps no. The vast majority of rifles are far more accurate than their operators, especially under field conditions. Judging the merits of a cartridge by it's accuracy potential is foolish, unless we're discussing competition shooting, and high end target guns that could actually show any difference in accuracy between different cartridges
30-06 velocity limit:
wait a minute here. I though we were just saying how well the 30-06 can cope with different bullets and muzzle velicities, and be as flat as a 270? Certainly a 30-06 can move a 150 grainer faster than a 7mm mag can move a 175 grainer. Furthermore, if we define 'optimal velocity' to be 2700 to 2900 - then virtually every modern sporting cartridge has a load in this velocity zone. Including the 7mm mag, the 300 mag, and WSM's as well as the non-magnum 308 family, the 7x57 family, and wildcats.
Magnums require premiums:
not at all. Or at least, not any more so than a 264 win mag shooting 160 grainers requires a premium bullet where a 30-06 shooting a 150 grainer doesn't.
460 more powerful:
not sure what you're getting at. Of course it recoils more, but if you're in a situation requiring the use of a 460, you'd better damn well have learned to cope with recoil as it'd be the least of your worries. And I'd bet you real money that someone who has found themself in a situation where there's a dire need for a 460 has ever said "geez, this recoil is a #####, I wish I had my '06 instead"
Newbie friendly:
see above. The 30-06 is HARDLY any more newbie friendly than one of a dozen of other rounds. The 7mm mag, for example, has a miniscule recoil difference compared to the 30-06. As with the 308. And none of them are especially newbie friendly; I'd even argue that a full power 30-06 is decidedly un-newbie-friendly when you look at the 7mm08, 6.5x55, 243, or the entire range of sub-caliber cartridges.
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Burning the witch? Pot kettle black?
They're easy to come by and easy to feed. It's a bullseye on the dart board of North American big game rifle cartridges. Though anyone who's played darts knows that the bullseye isn't always what you need.
The problem with the 30-06 is that it IS the best cartridge yet designed, considering its over a hundred years old.
One just has to look at the numerous offspring of the 30-06 to truly understand how great the case is.
with respect Prosper, I disagree.
The 30-06 is probably the best all around cartridge right now. I would use 180gr factory rounds from everything in NA except for the largest bears. Even then, it is an adequate round against the larger bears.
I would not feel under gunned against Elk or Moose, nor would I feel over gunned against deer and similar big game.
The '06 can be loaded down to what, is it 65gr bullets? Yes, the rifling wouldn't be ideal on most rifles for something like that, but it just proves my point... the '06 is adaptable to whatever you want to hunt. Plus, forget ammo? the corner store will have some.
One just has to look at the numerous offspring of the 30-06 to truly understand how great the case is.
prosper said:
with respect Prosper, I disagree.
The 30-06 is probably the best all around cartridge right now. I would use 180gr factory rounds from everything in NA except for the largest bears. Even then, it is an adequate round against the larger bears.
I would not feel under gunned against Elk or Moose, nor would I feel over gunned against deer and similar big game.
The '06 can be loaded down to what, is it 65gr bullets? Yes, the rifling wouldn't be ideal on most rifles for something like that, but it just proves my point... the '06 is adaptable to whatever you want to hunt. Plus, forget ammo? the corner store will have some.
