A New Predator Wanders In...

CV32 said:
Agreed. If someone wants to claim a new species, let's see the evidence. Its going to take more than a collection of anecdotes from anonymous folks on the Interwebz that they're seeing bigger, meaner animals. I think many people fail to understand basic ecology and biology, let alone genetic variation.



Solid observations.
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Eastern Coyotes out west now????
 
3macs1 said:
Just a question have you ever noticed when they run a couple deer out on the ice somedays they seem to be killing just for sport and not eating any of the deer right away
That seems to happen here Cheers
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Have not noticed that here. Usually we find the blood trail and carcass while ice fishing, based on the tracks and snowfall, within two nights, all that is left is hair and bones. I do think the coy-wolves here are always hungry during winter.
 
FLHTCUI said:
I’d say they are a fair representation of your hybrids.
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They're a fair representation of our eastern coyotes. Nothing unusual about them. This fellow is more typical of the Labrador wolf/coyote hybrids:

coyote-wolf-hybrid.jpg


You should a read the schitz Storm I created when suggesting the guy should move 6 feet close to the rather large cougar he harvested in BC one time. Ffs, they where just about ready to put a bounty on this Union Thugs Head, but I merely pounted out the optical illusion and signed off.
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Its really annoying when hunters do this. Let your trophy stand on its own.

Btw, 38 pounds and size representation is sometimes hard to comprehend with out the scale of measurement to go along with it. Oh, what’s the metric conversion for 38 pounds,lol. Hope those who get a chance to harvest one do take it and help your ungulate population.
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Yes, and when they're furred up, inexperienced folks seem to think they're all 100 lbs.
 
3macs1 said:
So it is not the norm for coyotes??? if so why do CB coyotes do it now???
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CB coyotes are not normal coyotes, remember? They're eastern coyotes, with the DNA soup mix. In any case, it is not unusual for many predator species, especially canids. Even weasels do it.
 
CV32 said:
It matters enough to you to carry on a discussion. I didn't come here for anything other than that.



So, is it a brand new species or just genetic variation of the same species?



Self-employed here. And I am guessing it wasn't the Department of Education for you, lol. :p
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No it sure wasn't . But that being said lets not start comparing letters at the end of names. You may lose :) LOL
But like I say university doesn't make anyone smart
What is wrong talking about it here on a real cold day/ night when the different opinions are quite interesting
Some experts say new species me I think the original evolved here and are still changing big time since lately moose were not part of the food cycle at least healthy ones but now we are seeing cases of healthy moose being taken by packs
Cheers
 
In various books, coyotes are referred to as "Brush wolves". Gray Wolf are referred to as "Timber Wolves". The "Eastern Wolf" is listed as a sub-member of the "Gray Wolf" family. The Algonquin Wolf is listed as hybrid among Eastern Wolf, Grey Wolf and Coyote. Add in the hybridizing with domestic dogs, and in my opinion, the blood lines and genetics are just a complete mess.

We had a female coyote on our farm- one of our Walker Hounds on a chain had her locked up in a f%$khold - we shot the coyote then unhooked them. Glad that she didn't succeed - bad combination for the deer.

Regional variations are certainly not surprising. I have personally witnessed a regional difference, my local "Coyotes" look remarkably different from another WMU where I hunt, approx 250km distant, where all the coyotes I have seen and killed, are more "fox-like" in appearance - smaller than ours, and more pointed muzzle. We have some black ones here, and also some that are nearly white. The largest I have seen locally looked like a small deer, likely a Timber wolf that had ventured south.

Regardless of genetics, they are all excellent quarry to hunt, intelligent, cautious, and sneaky.
 
3macs1 said:
No it sure wasn't . But that being said lets not start comparing letters at the end of names. You may lose :) LOL But like I say university doesn't make anyone smart
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You brought it up. ;)

What is wrong talking about it here on a real cold day/ night when the different opinions are quite interesting Some experts say new species me I think the original evolved here and are still changing big time since lately moose were not part of the food cycle at least healthy ones but now we are seeing cases of healthy moose being taken by packs
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So we're not so far apart after all. Evolution doesn't stop and genetic variation is to be expected. But are you saying the Cape Breton eastern coyote has evolved into something beyond others?
 
https://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/episodes/meet-the-coywolf

https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/yes-eastern-coyotes-are-hybrids-coywolf-not-thing/
Eastern Wolf

https://academic.oup.com/jmammal/article/85/4/625/2373243
Recent genetic data indicate that the eastern wolf is not a subspecies of the gray wolf (Canis lupus), but is a North American wolf more similar to the red wolf (C. rufus) and closely related to the coyote (C. latrans). The eastern wolf has been proposed as a separate species, C. lycaon. The largest protected area containing this wolf is Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario, Canada, which is bounded to the south by areas containing the Tweed wolf or eastern coyote, a hybrid of the western coyote and eastern wolf. (So... What we have here is the eastern coyote, basically....)

https://owlcation.com/stem/Animals-of-Algonquin-Provincial-Park

https://oodmag.com/news/increased-protections-eastern-wolf/

https://www.canids.org/CBC/20/Northeastern_coyote_not_a_species.pdf

https://people.trentu.ca/~brentpatterson/Index_files/Wheeldon and Patterson 2012.pdf

https://phys.org/news/2017-06-wolf-evolution-science.html
Two camps. It is a species vs. it is not.

The fog is thick on this topic in Ontario. I heard a biology prof from Maine on a CBC interview a couple of years ago declare that the eastern wolf is a coyote/wolf/dog hybrid that doesn't need protection. He declared that Algonquin park should be renamed feral dog park and that if they were serious about wolf protection they would eradicate the present mongrels and reintroduce gray wolves to the landscape. Unfortunately, I cannot find the reference. If someone can find it please post.

In the meantime. I have to buy wolf/coyote seals to shoot coy-dogs (one at a time, two max) at my cabin while they're out there decimating the deer population. I think the MNR want to protect a made up species to secure jobs.

Anyways,
I'm off to the cabin to hopefully shoot one on the weekend. Anyone from the Ottawa area interested in trying to get one. Send me a PM.
Cheers,
GJG
 
Although farmers are absolutely allowed to protect livestock,as usual,they get a huge hassle every time they do. Since some CO's have taken it upon themselves to check every reported incident regarding them as poaching offenses,most farmers are using the SSSTFU method of predator control. Can't say as I blame them.
 
Because of a certain pro-wolf study done years back, we are banned from hunting them in the Algonquin Park area, despite evidence of strong numbers at least on my property. Now I hear claims of a "new species evolving" arrrg... they are as smart as coyotes and almost as strong as wolves. Bad combination!
 
Trimmer 905 said:
Ontario is full of them. We've hunted them for decades calling them Brush Wolves. They're nothing new around these parts. They can be found in urban and suburban neighborhoods in our largest cities and are quite adept at urban survival. In some areas,they've been known to brazenly attack pets in back yards and even when out for a walk with their owners. They can be readily seen running in packs of up to 6,especially,while hunting at night. People have complained of being awakened at night by howling and yipping after the pack has captured and killed food,usually,somebody's cat.
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So true; more shot every year. They were a rare thing in the 70's, but now you can see them out in daylight.
 
Who cares what you call em. It's something fun to hunt. Fur isn't worth a dam on them but let's face it the only real control is hunting or trapping. There are so many of them and it seems that they increase their breeding the more that are taken. I've been hunting coyotes for 20 years in Ontario. I've seen 57lbs males that looked like wolves And some less than 20 lbs red like a fox they seem to average about 30lbs +- a few lbs.
They come in every colour black, red, white, yellow, and the most common grizzled gray black.

At the end of the day they are a predator that requires control so they don't destroy game populations, kill livestock or pets.
So go get yourself and e caller and a predator rifle, or get some friends together a do some coyote drives or if you have the landscape and don't get into too much trouble a few hounds and go kill a few. There are lots to hunt.
 
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