A Tale of Sako, S&B, Bad Luck and Customer Service

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Sako $hit the bed with the changes made to the 85 from the 75 series. So now you get a "pseudo" controlled round feed action that wont clear spent cases out of the ejection port, brilliant design!

I had a .300 WSM that did the same thing and damaged the finish on the turret housing on a new Leupold scope I put on it, it's now down the road. This is absolutely un-acceptable for an $500 rifle never mind one that costs nearly 4x that amount.

Glad to hear Stoeger took care of you, actually I'm a little surprised. My dealings with them have been abysmal, particularly their warranty dept. Sent a $5000 TRG back to them for evaluation by their "gunsmith" (read sarcasm) only to have it shipped back to me with the bolt thrown loose in the box so it can beat the *uck out of the stock the whole way back to Calgary. Of course nothing was found to be wrong.... Had other experiences but that is for the "I hate Stoeger thread" that may still be started one day.

I am shocked to hear that both S&B's had issues, this is very disappointing to hear. Sounds like Wolverine displayed excellent customer service and should be commended. It's really pathetic that we in Canada are so easily bullied by our dealers and distributors, hell even our gun forums! Al Flarhety's gave crap service but because they are a paying sponsor on the site this thread will probably get swept under the rug. LAME!

oh yeah, IBTL.
 
I enjoyed you post (unfortunately at your expense). I can say that my short action 85 has no problems with ejection, and I hope that you can choose a scope for your new set up that will miss the ejected cases. It may be that in your new quest for the perfect scope for the rifle - you will have to consider the overall diameter of it. Perhaps if you can measure the outside diameter of the S&B's scope at the turret and try and find another model that's smaller.

Poor customer service speaks for itself and we all experience it one at a time. When it happens I often ask to speak to the organ grinder (manager), because I'm tired of talking to the monkey (the inattentive, poorly skilled salesman). They get the point. ;)
 
To be honest I feel that S&B is a very good piece of kit. The fit, finish, engineering, glass, construction - it just projects high quality. The registration card said that they offer free service in 10 years to replace o-rings and nitrogen. Everything tells you that S&B is top notch.

This is why the issues I had annoyed me even more. An eye lush right at the middle of a glass?! Like no one even bother to look through it as it was assembled! But I would buy it again, honestly, if Zeniths were in stock I would probably get a 3rd one.

As for Sako - same story actually. No mater where you look they are great, and then boom - extractor is at 2 o'clock ejector blade is at 6. For the ... why?! The only reason I could think of is that they wanted to save a dime on production so left and right handed bolts would work with the same ejector. Very depressing to see that "optimization". Moreover I don't understand why they keep doing it for so long. Why not make Sako 86 and be done with it?
 
SuperCub said:
IBTL ..... Looks like Al is a supporting deal here.

From their web site



Good luck getting that "written consent".
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I couldn't care if they're a supporting dealer or what their written policy is. Given their behavior towards the OP they can get stuffed if they think that attitude will get them any of my business. I've bought a rifle from them once and ran into an issue with them too. Wolverine on the other hand has a stellar reputation for a reason, they give a sh*t and will do what it takes to make it right. Yes it takes effort, and yes it may cost them a certain amount dealing with issues this way, but what you'll never be able to calculate is the repeat business and word of mouth sales they get from treating customers right, their success may be a clue ;)
 
So if I understand correctly, Stoeger took the rifle back and credited Al Flaherty's? Why didn't they just credit you?
Did Stoeger credit AF's the full amount you paid or their cost? I think some things need clarification. I'm not totally siding with AF's on this, but their policy does state "no returns". Sako/Stoeger is really to blame here, it's their product. They need to fix this, not the gun store.
 
Owlowl: Not sure what happened, but you should call the guys on Monday and talk to Domenic, he's the primary owner and he will do his best to make it right.

Which Sam did you talk to?
 
bearkilr said:
So if I understand correctly, Stoeger took the rifle back and credited Al Flaherty's? Why didn't they just credit you?
Did Stoeger credit AF's the full amount you paid or their cost? I think some things need clarification. I'm not totally siding with AF's on this, but their policy does state "no returns". Sako/Stoeger is really to blame here, it's their product. They need to fix this, not the gun store.
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Typically Stoeger only credits the wholesaler cost of the item, not the retail. Retail costs factor in annual profit margins and a lot of factors which can make these things tricky. Either way I'm not pleased with how this all played out, but I'm not in the office until Monday.
 
You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Stoeger and Wolverine are taking care of him, damage control doesn't count for much at this point.
 
token_irish said:
Owlowl: Not sure what happened, but you should call the guys on Monday and talk to Domenic, he's the primary owner and he will do his best to make it right.

Which Sam did you talk to?
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I was talking to both Sams. Junior Sam was the guy who talked to Stoeger. He refereed to the older gentleman as a "big boss", so I'm guessing its the Senior Sam.

Regardless, I don't want to deal with you anymore. I bought a $2000 rifle from you. I had nothing but trouble and zero help. I went to you with my problem - didnt you rush to help me? No you sent me to the distributor, I went to Stoeger, you said you will call them before I come. I came 3 days later Stoeger had NO CLUE about me, I don't care who called or missed who.

I drive all around and presenting to everyone like a fcking clown with my $1500 scope $2000 rifle and branded $150 rings. And after all that when Stoeger says "yes its our fault, we spoke to the store we are crediting them go talk to them" I expect UNDERSTANDING and wiliness to accommodate a customer. I can't care less about annual profit margins. I bet every single penny of my $2000 I've paid you worked flawlessly on you bank account. You are a retail joint you are in a customer serving business, but you act as you don't get it.

Anyway, I don't have to deal with you, you don't have to deal with me anymore. We will work it our with Stoeger. Thank you for responding to a thread on a public forum.
 
owlowl said:
I was talking to both Sams. Junior Sam was the guy who talked to Stoeger. He refereed to the older gentleman as a "big boss", so I'm guessing its the Senior Sam.

Regardless, I don't want to deal with you anymore. I bought a $2000 rifle from you. I had nothing but trouble and zero help. I went to you with my problem - didnt you rush to help me? No you sent me to the distributor, I went to Stoeger, you said you will call them before I come. I came 3 days later Stoeger had NO CLUE about me, I don't care who called or missed who.

I drive all around and presenting to everyone like a fcking clown with my $1500 scope $2000 rifle and branded $150 rings. And after all that when Stoeger says "yes its our fault, we spoke to the store we are crediting them go talk to them" I expect UNDERSTANDING and wiliness to accommodate a customer. I can't care less about annual profit margins. I bet every single penny of my $2000 I've paid you worked flawlessly on you bank account. You are a retail joint you are in a customer serving business, but you act as you don't get it.

Anyway, I don't have to deal with you, you don't have to deal with me anymore. We will work it our with Stoeger. Thank you for responding to a thread on a public forum.
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Well said.
 
token_irish said:
Typically Stoeger only credits the wholesaler cost of the item, not the retail. Retail costs factor in annual profit margins and a lot of factors which can make these things tricky. Either way I'm not pleased with how this all played out, but I'm not in the office until Monday.
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Hmmm, wonder what would affect your "annual profit margins" more.... giving the customer a justified refund or the bad publicity that your poor customer service has brought to light. Enjoy the fruits of your efforts or rather, lack there of.
 
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owlowl said:
I was talking to both Sams. Junior Sam was the guy who talked to Stoeger. He refereed to the older gentleman as a "big boss", so I'm guessing its the Senior Sam.

Regardless, I don't want to deal with you anymore. I bought a $2000 rifle from you. I had nothing but trouble and zero help. I went to you with my problem - didnt you rush to help me? No you sent me to the distributor, I went to Stoeger, you said you will call them before I come. I came 3 days later Stoeger had NO CLUE about me, I don't care who called or missed who.

I drive all around and presenting to everyone like a fcking clown with my $1500 scope $2000 rifle and branded $150 rings. And after all that when Stoeger says "yes its our fault, we spoke to the store we are crediting them go talk to them" I expect UNDERSTANDING and wiliness to accommodate a customer. I can't care less about annual profit margins. I bet every single penny of my $2000 I've paid you worked flawlessly on you bank account. You are a retail joint you are in a customer serving business, but you act as you don't get it.

Anyway, I don't have to deal with you, you don't have to deal with me anymore. We will work it our with Stoeger. Thank you for responding to a thread on a public forum.
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Very well said
 
I had a sako that did the same thing. Sold it. Buddy has one that also does this but he rotated his scope to the left 45 degrees and got high scope rings. Cheek weld is non existent and looks so dumb but whatever. Works for him. I have NO idea why sako did what they did here. Might work for europeans using 56mm scopes and high rings but I like a nice 2-7x33, especially in the bavarian 85 6.5x55 which I would love to have but won't do to ejection issues.

Thanks for sharing the thread.
 
kman300 said:
I had a sako that did the same thing. Sold it. Buddy has one that also does this but he rotated his scope to the left 45 degrees and got high scope rings. Cheek weld is non existent and looks so dumb but whatever. Works for him. I have NO idea why sako did what they did here. Might work for europeans using 56mm scopes and high rings but I like a nice 2-7x33, especially in the bavarian 85 6.5x55 which I would love to have but won't do to ejection issues.

Thanks for sharing the thread.
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You said it.

I had a beautiful .300wsm Bavarian with a VX3 2.5-8 mounted in leupold low rings on it. Hunting rifle perfection.... until you cycle the bolt and have to tip the rifle on its side to clear the spent casing. Wanted to get a Bavarian in 6.5x55 but will not go down that path based on past experience.
 
Sako Bavarian Carbine in 30-06 with Sako low QD mount/rings.... no ejections issues with mine whatsoever! I really hope this doesn't become a lame "I hate {fill in rifle brand here] thread"... because such threads NEVER represent the majority.

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If everyone who had an problem with sako ejection would return it and made it a warranty issue this would stop years ago. How can you buy one of the most expensive production rifles on a rack and accept this to the point of "rotating scope 45 degrees" or just selling it to another fellow to deal with is beyond my understanding.
 
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