accurate .308 semi????

Long Range Canuck,I had the opportunity twice to shoot the PSG1 in Germany with the PSK and to say the least I was more than impressed with its performance.Out to 300m the PSG1 is in the same league as a Steyr SSG or Sako TRG 21/22 ,if not better.The PSG was never designed to be a military sniper system so throwing the brass 3m wasn't a disadvantage.Shooting 5 round groups with RWS factory ammo at 300m produced groups between .5 to .8" groups and that with a 6x Hensoldt.-Rainer
 
Rainer that is impressive shooting. I am not knocking the performance of the PSG-1 just that it is not the "most accurate .308 semi" here is a quote im going to paste from Stewart Willson of Shooter Ready who builds precision AR-10 rifles, he builds AR-10's and gaurentee's .5 MOA or better out to 1000 yards, I believe it out ranges and out groups the PSG-1, This is one of many AR type rifles that does it and alot cheaper. Here's the quote and can be seen at www.shooterready.com, this is a great debate :D

In the rotating bolt system design, everything moves on the same axial plane. It has no reciprocating operating rod to disturb the dynamics of cycling. The AR is an ideal optical platform, to boot.

The rotating bolt, when fitted correctly, i.e. matched to the gas system and buffer system while mated to a well-thought-out barrel configuration had a theoretical repeating situation that just begged to be evaluated.

The ArmaLite units are quality produced 7075 forgings set up to function with modified M14 magazines (everyone has a drawer full of those).


It has taken me 3 years to solve most of the problems associated with the AR10. The result is a rifle that can address just about any mission requirement. From a 24 inch position rifle of 15+ pounds that is one half moa to 1000 yards
 
Long Range Canuck said:
Rainer that is impressive shooting. I am not knocking the performance of the PSG-1 just that it is not the "most accurate .308 semi" here is a quote im going to paste from Stewart Willson of Shooter Ready who builds precision AR-10 rifles, he builds AR-10's and gaurentee's .5 MOA or better out to 1000 yards, I believe it out ranges and out groups the PSG-1, This is one of many AR type rifles that does it and alot cheaper. Here's the quote and can be seen at www.shooterready.com, this is a great debate :D

In the rotating bolt system design, everything moves on the same axial plane. It has no reciprocating operating rod to disturb the dynamics of cycling. The AR is an ideal optical platform, to boot.

The rotating bolt, when fitted correctly, i.e. matched to the gas system and buffer system while mated to a well-thought-out barrel configuration had a theoretical repeating situation that just begged to be evaluated.

The ArmaLite units are quality produced 7075 forgings set up to function with modified M14 magazines (everyone has a drawer full of those).


It has taken me 3 years to solve most of the problems associated with the AR10. The result is a rifle that can address just about any mission requirement. From a 24 inch position rifle of 15+ pounds that is one half moa to 1000 yards
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I can say this..The US Army chose the AR-10T platform to replace all 7.62 mm Nato firearms..to be more specific Knight's Manufacturing M110 SASS.

They rarely go wrong, when it comes to contract purchases.
 
The PSG 1 is extreamly accurate and well capable, with it's huge heavy barrel, of shooting to 900m. The barrel is nearly 26 inches long but I find the fixed 6 power scope is not enough for my declining eyesight and I would not shoot it much beyond 600m. The MSG was nearly identical in performance, however lighter and far less expensive, with it's own bipod and is the coolest looking rifle. The trigger is the same on the MSG and SR9 and is excellent, very crisp. The SR9 shoots .5 MOA groups with factory Federal Match but I have not shot any of them beyond 300m. All the HK's have significantly less recoil than the M21. I have not shot any of the AR10's but will likely have a chance in the next few weeks to give one a go.

The PSG 1 is almost a crew served weapon. I am not a small man and I can't shoot it from anything but prone. The "tri pod" is a seperate entitiy on it's own. It's a very cool piece for sure, I love the box and all the stuff layed out in it, it shoots great but the price, the weight and in Canada the prohib designation, have effectivley killed it. The last time I was out at the range with it there was no one there to admire it anyway.

My vote, without having any time behind the AR10, goes to the SR9 CT. It's very accurate, is fairly light and highly reliable and mounted with a B&L 10x Mil dot, she's under $4k and is very gentle for follow up shots as required. With it's prohib status, it joins the ranks of the rest so looks like the AR comes out on top. The point I'm trying to make is that the HK's are fantastic performers on the range for semi's and in fact for any rifle. For half the price of a PSG1 you could get one hell of a nice bolt gun to be sure. I'll see if I can get some pics up of the test target and some of mine.

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You can see the buisness end of the PSG 1 and the tripod required to hold her up. I think in her time, she was the most accurate, but you paid for that performance in weight and dollars. Things have progressed a lot in the past 20 years.
 
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While it will always be debatable whether the PSG-1 is the most accurate semi on the market, it will always be the bench mark by which all other semi autos are judged.
 
What he or she never said was if he/she wants something that is prohibited, or if this is in general just a question to prod into semi auto's. I honestly think you can find an accurate semi auto from an unheard of but non the less quality (voere) and jump over that prohibited bs. I blew with the wind and own all un restrickted long rifles so I can take them where I want when I want and blast away accurately. In all of us we want a black rifle, but they are to scary for our incompetent hands :( I have to admit I like the ar 10, but the only black rifle's I have shot were m4's of varying modifications.
 
mouse said:
What he or she never said was if he/she wants something that is prohibited, or if this is in general just a question to prod into semi auto's. I honestly think you can find an accurate semi auto from an unheard of but non the less quality (voere) and jump over that prohibited bs. I blew with the wind and own all un restrickted long rifles so I can take them where I want when I want and blast away accurately. In all of us we want a black rifle, but they are to scary for our incompetent hands :( I have to admit I like the ar 10, but the only black rifle's I have shot were m4's of varying modifications.
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Interesting posts, but Mouse, NOT ALL of us want or even secretly long to own or even shoot a black rifle.
I for one do not like them, but a "black tube rifle" would certainly be okay!:D
With irons on top , of course!
Cat
 
Great response Pistol Pete, Had to go throw in that beautiful picture didn't you. I will argue till I'm blue in the face that the PSG-1 is no longer the most accurate .308 semi out there, but she is definately the best looking!! Great pic any profile shots?

NOT ALL of us want or even secretly long to own or even shoot a black rifle.
I for one do not like them, but a "black tube rifle" would certainly be okay!
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Yes you do Cat, I know at the range you play hard to get and won't try out mine, but I see ya looking.....If you have an interest in a Tube Rifle it's only a matter of time before she's an auto loader........with Iron sights of course!;) :D
 
Long Range Canuck said:
Great response Pistol Pete, Had to go throw in that beautiful picture didn't you. I will argue till I'm blue in the face that the PSG-1 is no longer the most accurate .308 semi out there, but she is definately the best looking!! Great pic any profile shots?



Yes you do Cat, I know at the range you play hard to get and won't try out mine, but I see ya looking.....If you have an interest in a Tube Rifle it's only a matter of time before she's an auto loader........with Iron sights of course!;) :D
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You realloy don't know "how far off the trail" you are with that LRC!!:cool:
The fact is, I shot one of those things once a very long time ago, about the same time I shot a semi auto pistol IIRC.
No thanks, never again, won't be bothered.....
Cat
 
I find it best not to read the rifle boards in the U.S. too often. Too many
people seem to have unlimited money to shoot sick stuff that makes me
green with envy.:(
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Well I was loosing the discussion so I had to do something... You know what they say "a picture is worth a thousand words"... I took that pic from the airsoft thread here I added as a joke... 7.62 airsoft. My internet at home is gone but I'll see if anything else survives here in my previous posts from the HK pics thread. I do have a complete HK line profile shot but it's x's?

Our Tac guys just got their new accurized Stoner .308's today. I'll be out in the next few weeks and will let you know how they are but they are reportedly very good. Putting the S&B scopes from the AR10's on them next week.

j58gly.jpg


mhr0v6.jpg


Yep, red x but theres a 94 to tide you over until I get sorted out. Wife took internet with her.
 
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Pete that I would be extreamly interested in, if the Stoner doesnt impress you with the Accuracy that the PSG-1 did, I will humbly eat my words, The Stoner you guy's are getting should be right up there with the quality of the AR-10's i mentioned previously. Wish I could be there with ya.;) If the Stoner doesn't hold up to the PSG-1 maybe put it up against the airsoft and post those results.:p :D

Pistol Pete said:
Well I was loosing the discussion so I had to do something... You know what they say "a picture is worth a thousand words"... I took that pic from the airsoft thread I added as a joke. My internet at home is gone but I'll see if anything else survives here in my previous posts from the HK pics thread. I do have a complete HK line profile shot but it's x's?

Our Tac guys just got their new accurized Stoner .308's today. I'll be out in the next few weeks and will let you know how they are but they are reportedly very good. Putting the S&B scopes from the AR10's on them next week.
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lcq said:
Cheap, non restricted 308 capable of better than 1" with handloads has to go to the Nork M305. What do you want for $400.00

Brian
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Oustanding answer..Yup, for the bang for the buck$$, you are so right with the Norinco & a few improvements, not that it really needs any...
 
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