I can't see why anyone wouldn't agree with all of you...? No sarcasm intended.
Admin Load, so you do it?
- Thread starter Amazingkg3
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I can't see why anyone wouldn't agree with all of you...? No sarcasm intended.
The issue is with the chambered round. I agree that most issues arise from unseated magazines, however the round that is chambered could be the deciding factor. A tactile check solves the issue of whether or not a round chambered without having to remove or cycle anything on the pistol. I'm confident that when I seat a magazine, cycle the slide and see the extractor protruding, that my pistol is indeed loaded. I have yet to experience a type 1 stoppage due to a poorly seated magazine and the subsequent empty chamber. As I mentioned, a tactile LCI works in the dark where the chamber check and magazine witness holes do not.
The best way to minimize user induced stoppages is to stop f*cking with the firearm. Load it, shoot it, repeat.
TDC
so let me get thisright, your relying on the "loaded chamber indicator" to be telling the truth and yet in all other instances you do not rely on anything.... you don't think the slide stop should be used or the bolt released because they are mechanical.....
your confusing me.... what if a piece of brass got shaved and isstuck underneth the extractor.... since no round got stripped off to clear the extractor of debris the loaded chamber indicator could be lying.
your confusing me.... what if a piece of brass got shaved and isstuck underneth the extractor.... since no round got stripped off to clear the extractor of debris the loaded chamber indicator could be lying.
and not all guns have an extractor or loaded chamber indicator that you can feel reliably. Especially for those who shoot with gloves on. the only sure way to know that you have a round in your gun is to look and confirm it's in there. Checking witness holes, or position of a round on top of your mag is awesome, unless you mis-loaded your mag (cuz I've never seen that happen). However the secret to however you do it, is to make sure you reset your firearm to a proper functioning position. That means mag in and seated, slide forward in battery, and rounds in your mag.
heavenIsAlie
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always pull my slide back a bit to check for the shine of brass then let it go forward. im not moving it more than a 1/4" and ill always look to make sure its in battery afterward.
chamber indicators are nice, but i prefer to trust my eyes for that type of thing
chamber indicators are nice, but i prefer to trust my eyes for that type of thing
I do brass checks like it's going out of style. I do them both to make sure I got one ready to rock and also to make sure the gun is clear. When I'm checking to make sure I'm loaded, I always bump the back of the slide to make sure it's in battery... I call it the pistol forward assist haha
Its you're not your for starters.
I'm not relying on the LCI but it is both a visual and physical confirmation of a loaded chamber. I have complete confidence in the engineers who designed my pistol that when a magazine is fully seated and the slide cycled, a round has indeed entered the chamber. If you don't trust your abilities and/or your firearm, you need to replace one or both. I do agree that brass bits or other debris may enter the chamber or under the extractor. However, seeing as how this is an "admin load" you have the time to inspect the firearm and its components for proper function.
Slavex,
A downloaded magazine is entirely the operators responsibility. Pay attention when loading your mags and you'll never short yourself. In addition you should be observing the witness holes prior to inserting the "admin load" magazine. By confirming how many rounds are in the mag prior to chambering, the total quantity is irrelevant.
Sambaru,
Checking for shiny brass only works during the day which means it doesn't work for half the hours in a day.
TDC
A reliable gun with proper handling/loading should set your mind at ease. Tap, rack, bang works without brain engagement too.
If your gun isn't reliable, your press check isn't going to turn your gun into a Colt Custom. If your magazine isn't seated properly, you don't need to check the chamber to know it isn't. If the round didn't chamber properly, your slide isn't in battery and this can be seen and felt without looking at the cartridge.
If you need to pinch check your gun after you've loaded it, bigger issues are at play, or you may be watching too much Hawaii 5-0.
Don't need any chamber indicator either. You should know if your gun is loaded or not.
ETA ... and what is up with those who rack their slide a dozen times like they're lubricating it or something? How many times do you "really" need to rack that slide until you figure the gun is empty?
If your gun isn't reliable, your press check isn't going to turn your gun into a Colt Custom. If your magazine isn't seated properly, you don't need to check the chamber to know it isn't. If the round didn't chamber properly, your slide isn't in battery and this can be seen and felt without looking at the cartridge.
If you need to pinch check your gun after you've loaded it, bigger issues are at play, or you may be watching too much Hawaii 5-0.
Don't need any chamber indicator either. You should know if your gun is loaded or not.
ETA ... and what is up with those who rack their slide a dozen times like they're lubricating it or something? How many times do you "really" need to rack that slide until you figure the gun is empty?
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OK Easy, so I may have to change my name to Dano, unless you can enlighten me to some of the "bigger issues" at play.
Fortunately I know that my gun is loaded before it goes in the holster, it's called a "press check", fool proof, simple, and 100% accurate every single time.
Fortunately I know that my gun is loaded before it goes in the holster, it's called a "press check", fool proof, simple, and 100% accurate every single time.
Sorry I'm confused, "next state" Do you mean the next stage or during the stage? If you're referring to a reload under the clock then a press check doesn't get done, you simply rely on the engineering of the firearm and your ability to load.
TDC
I have never thought of this - I always loaded, pinch checked and then swapped mags from a pouch, and then topped up the 14 mag and put it back in the pouch. Much more efficient to do it your way... Very similar to the technique presented by Costa in the Magpul Dynamics carbine videos about double column mags - check that your rifle fed by noting the top round before inserting (Left/right) and then dropping the mag after closing the bolt and checking and verbalizing that the top round is on the opposite side.
Excellent point as well.
Where did this come from? Even a large percentage of the BFIs around preach this - half of the guys I know carry 14+1 and half carry 15+1. I have shot a ton off of a 15+1 load situation in competition and training and never have I ever experienced any form of malfunction. Ever. A bunch of the 14_+1 crowd swears that carrying the extra round will cause everything from stoppages to cavites and AIDS, but nobody can actually give any reference to any reputable, emipirical testing. I have a loaded work mag loaded with 15 sitting beside me right now... I pushed down on the stack and there was no hasitation to depress below the level of groove on the spine at the feed lips. Utter fallacy in this design.
Three times
Does anybody actually know where the "Cycle the action three times" thing started? I have been doing it that way since I started with self-loaders because someone told me to do it that way in my formative times but I never understand why. Now it's just a habit.
So let's see another guy who carries a gun for a living does a press check. Hmm isn't it strange how the Pros seem to do it one way and the non pros another? Are we recognizing a pattern here?
Mis-loaded mags happen. You shoot enough it will happen to you. They'll double stack instead of stagger, they'll nose dive, end dive, hang up, you name. All these things can happen before you charge your gun and some after.
I've personally witnessed 5946's that will not take a fully loaded mag with the slide forward. Just too tight. Same for Beretta, Sig and of course Glock. It happens. Trusting a loaded indicator is nice, but what if its malfunctioning?
Mis-loaded mags happen. You shoot enough it will happen to you. They'll double stack instead of stagger, they'll nose dive, end dive, hang up, you name. All these things can happen before you charge your gun and some after.
I've personally witnessed 5946's that will not take a fully loaded mag with the slide forward. Just too tight. Same for Beretta, Sig and of course Glock. It happens. Trusting a loaded indicator is nice, but what if its malfunctioning?
Ah yes, and we all know how experienced these guys who carry a gun for a living are.
If you want to be sure a round chambers properly, make sure the magazine is seated correctly before you cycle the slide. That is the only reason a round may not be stripped into the chamber. Anything else, the slide will not go into battery and you should know that before you holster your pistol.
Seat your magazine with authority, not like I've seen where some are scared to break their gun or something.
If your magazine isn't loaded properly and "tight" by the time the tenth round is in, (yes I agree this happens) but what does this have to do with being sure a round has entered the chamber?
If you use a stripper magazine with one round in it, after you chamber that round, remove the mag and the round isn't in the magazine, where do you think it went? The gun is loaded period. Why would you need to look at it chambered to be sure? There's more of a chance having a dud than an empty chamber. Besides, if the round doesn't enter the chamber for some reason, it will jamb your slide somehow and you will know that before you holster.
I'm not arguing that you shouldn't do a press check if you want to, I'm saying it isn't necessary and a waste of time if you pay attention to what you're doing in the first place. It's not like loading a gun under duress. At that point, tap, rack, bang work best in my opinion 'cause you just don't know what the exact problem may be.
Whether I carry a pistol for a living or not, I sure as hell know when my gun is loaded without the press check.
... and if you can't keep track, or know that your gun is loaded transitioning from one stage to another, that's a good reason for your SO to run a cold range and unload after every stage. You are not to be trusted with a loaded gun on your hip.
I'm no expert, just a serious student. However, I have found myself down a round or two before when loading up. Maybe I need remedial classes on loading mags. I've chambered a few thousand rounds I would guess, and have never had a round fail to chamber on an admin load. But, having a strong belief in Murphy, and keeping in the back of my mind that someone might try to kill me someday, or night, I like to rely on a press check when I have time.
On another note, I was shooting with a group the other night, and I found myself doing a press check on the line at one point (bad habit I guess). Well, I began to shake, started sweating, and teared up a little bit. I felt that everyone was watching me. There was a moment of panic, and then "bang", the gun worked! I was afeared that the RO would start running a cold range, singling me out as the troublemaker. I kept to myself after that, feeling a bit embarrassed. Knowing there were other Gunnutz there that might have noticed only made the shame worse. Needless to say, I'll be quietly seeking further training to regain the basics of carrying a loaded gun.
(whew, thanks, that was therapeutic)
when loading up. Maybe I need remedial classes on loading mags. I've chambered a few thousand rounds I would guess, and have never had a round fail to chamber on an admin load. But, having a strong belief in Murphy, and keeping in the back of my mind that someone might try to kill me someday, or night, I like to rely on a press check when I have time.On another note, I was shooting with a group the other night, and I found myself doing a press check on the line at one point (bad habit I guess). Well, I began to shake, started sweating, and teared up a little bit. I felt that everyone was watching me. There was a moment of panic, and then "bang", the gun worked! I was afeared that the RO would start running a cold range, singling me out as the troublemaker. I kept to myself after that, feeling a bit embarrassed. Knowing there were other Gunnutz there that might have noticed only made the shame worse. Needless to say, I'll be quietly seeking further training to regain the basics of carrying a loaded gun.
(whew, thanks, that was therapeutic)
lol dude, that's epic. I need to remember to bring a big super soaker squirt gun so I can properly identify culprits like you to others in the class.
the problem with using a stripper mag, that's a game thing, not a real life thing. It's already hard enough trying to impart gun skills onto new officers for the short time their trainers get them, to throw a "special" mag into the loop is unnecessary. you have to teach to the lowest common denominator, and I can just imagine the crisis a stripper mag would create.
the problem with using a stripper mag, that's a game thing, not a real life thing. It's already hard enough trying to impart gun skills onto new officers for the short time their trainers get them, to throw a "special" mag into the loop is unnecessary. you have to teach to the lowest common denominator, and I can just imagine the crisis a stripper mag would create.
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