Advanced Reloading: 14.5x114

Regarding the talk of making casings on a lathe, I have been told by the gents at CH4D that you can do it, but it MUST be made with naval brass. What the difference is between naval brass and standard brass, I would expect to be the strength of the casing to take the punishment a casing needs to absorb. How to get naval brass though... that is a totally different question.

I would much rather purchase cases and deal with doing some work to make them work with a .50BMG primer, rather than fuddling around with making the cases... too much to go wrong in my opinion.
 
Kevin M. said:
Thanks, taking a good look at it now. I note that it is good for .50BMG loading, but how about the much longer OAL for the 14.5x114mm? Does it have the capacity sizewise to do it, and will it take the CH4D dies?

Cheers.
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I use it for 20x138B so 14.5 should not be an issue. We may have to make a different die head for the dies. My 20mm dies are 2" where as 50 cal are a puny 1.5" dia.:rolleyes:
Not sure what diameter the CH4D dies are for the 14.5, but not a problem to make a top plate to what ever is required.
 
Meph said:
I'd be down for 20 to 50 cases, depending of the price. Do you have a ballpark estimate?





I'd like to thank you for clearing that up. Did Mr. Remo say why 416SS was used? As CanAm pointed out, it apparently doesn't cold work well. It makes sense to use it for how well it machines, and to reduce corrosion. As the cases will be sized to my chamber to the best fit, I don't see them wearing out prematurely; I wonder how long 20mm cases made with this process lasted, and if they were annealed or otherwise heat treated.

I was thinking about ways to machine the inside of the case today, came up with a few ideas. They'll be quite slow and touchy on a manual lathe, but I tested with a 0.400" diameter boring bar and I shouldn't have too much trouble boring the internal section of the case. It'll be extremely slow, but not impossible.

The 14.5 does have a small neck compared to the rest of the case, this complicates things as I'll need to cut a diameter inside the case that's much larger than the case mouth. Unless I can find a boring bar that can extend and retract the insert, independent of the boring bar position, while the bar is within the workpiece, I'll have to make my own. I already have a design for such a tool; simply put, a boring bar with a threaded hole down its center, and the insert mounted on a rail. A threaded shaft goes down the length of the boring bar to the rail, and is used to extend or retract the insert without moving the lathe X axis.

Again, I am extremely grateful for the input, and I'll be ordering CCI #35s soon.





Comforting to hear, as the powder load still makes me nervous. It's like the uncharted territory of the unknown country in another universe. With landmines.

Out of the 12' bar stock of steel I ordered, I reserved about 10 cases' worth for "plinking"; cases with just a straight bore down to the flash hole. Case capacity is extremely reduced, but those cases would serve only for a thousand+ grain cast bullet on top of Trail Boss and a shotgun primer. They'll probably be leaving at BP speeds, but they won't be very expensive to shoot. It'll be what I'll let friends shoot, as I do not want to see them injured if something goes wrong with a standard load.
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I did not question Mike. He has been doing this along time with the big bores. 416 tools nicely as you know, personally i would have thought 410 would have been better, but what do I know. Cold processing is definitely out of the question. So far the stainless steel cases seem to last up fairly well, I could find nothing to suggest them being annealed at any point in time. I would think that due to the small neck and larger body these would be a nightmare to do with a boring bar. The 20mm is not such a big deal as the neck is big and being essentially a 375 H&H on steroids, the body taper is shallow and the body is not that much larger than the projectile diameter.

IIRC the original 14.5s like the 20x138B I shoot were made with mild steel casings then lacquer finished to keep them from rusting. I know both steel and brass casings exist for both calibers.

I think if CanAm is able to import casings, jump on it. Machining casings is a PITA!!
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
I did not question Mike. He has been doing this along time with the big bores. 416 tools nicely as you know, personally i would have thought 410 would have been better, but what do I know. Cold processing is definitely out of the question. So far the stainless steel cases seem to last up fairly well, I could find nothing to suggest them being annealed at any point in time. I would think that due to the small neck and larger body these would be a nightmare to do with a boring bar. The 20mm is not such a big deal as the neck is big and being essentially a 375 H&H on steroids, the body taper is shallow and the body is not that much larger than the projectile diameter.

IIRC the original 14.5s like the 20x138B I shoot were made with mild steel casings then lacquer finished to keep them from rusting. I know both steel and brass casings exist for both calibers.

I think if CanAm is able to import casings, jump on it. Machining casings is a PITA!!
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Yep, it'll be all sorts of interesting, I'll have to make a chart of coordinates to follow the internal profile. I'll admit that I need the challenge; I dislike stagnating in a "comfort zone", so to speak, both professionally and in my hobbies. I'm grinning as I think about doing all that on the manual lathe, the one I'll most likely be using doesn't even have a DRO. Wish me luck.

If CanAm does import, I'll have a few stock cases but regardless, I'll be making my own either way.

I'll keep the thread up to date as things progress, even if it takes a while.

Thanks again for your valuable assistance!
 
CanAm said:
Approx $5 per round, minimum would be 1 case, which I believe is about 160rds

I will check if there are any spent cases available also
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You're saying you can bring in loaded ammo? That's awesome, but I hope it's not KPV load stuff, unless those stories are internet myths.

There is definite interest in both loaded rounds and spent cases/pulled bullet cases.
 
Meph said:
From what I understand of brass cases, turning brass will not forge the strength required for even the softest loads. If I understand it correctly, brass cases are forged out of brass disks by extensive machinery, are annealed at the body, shoulders and neck before final forming, and usually annealed at the shoulders and neck once it is sized. The case head and web are both tough and hard from the forging process, the body is in between, and the shoulders/neck are malleable. Such a process is a little out of my expertise, and I don't think even the big press at work has the horsepower to forge brass like that. Maybe, but I don't know. I also don't have that much experience with brass heat treatment, I hear it is a touchy affair, and can easily turn brass uselessly soft or too hard, cracking immediately.

Again, I'm no expert in brass cartridge metallurgy, but I got the impression that even a very soft load (anything over black powder pressure) will obliterate turned brass cases.

I hope this isn't all utter nonsense, as the internet can put strange things in one's head.

Thanks for the input, this is a valuable consideration regardless.
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there are cases made by lathe without drawing for smaller cases, mostly really oddball calibers and case life is much lower than normal, yes, but keeping to lighter loads and working them the minimum by using a custom die suited just to your chamber would help. case walls and case head could be a bit beefier than original aswell, still not as good as fresh factory brass, but im betting you dont want to throw too many slugs with this thing anyway, what with the scarcity of panzer 3s running amok these days and a day job limiting your shoulders recovery and physio time

i also wonder if predrawn billets would be possible to make the case and then anneal the neck and form. annealing isnt too difficult, just need the right stuff, look on youtube for assorted diy solutions

since you have the tools perhaps making a set of dies to make bullets would be another good project, like the .223 jacketed bullets from 22 cases or .40 pistol bullets from 9mm, you might find something like 1/2" copper pipe caps fit the bill for a half jacketed soft point
 
Light loads would work fine in the PTRD, but from my understanding, the PTRS that I have will not cycle much less than a full load, so while making cases may work for some, if case life is very short, ie. 2-3 firings, and I am shelling out $40-60 bucks a case to have them made, then the costs are just too high for practicality.

If canam is able to come through, and I will be sending him some emails to discuss this, then anything close $5.00/ empty case is a steal, let alone the prospect of having everything but the prohib API bullet...

I would and will gladly buy 2-300 of them just to have stock. I want to see my old warbird up and running again, and give others the chance to shoot it too.
 
Kevin M. said:
I would and will gladly buy 2-300 of them just to have stock. I want to see my old warbird up and running again, and give others the chance to shoot it too.
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sign me up, i can trade you for some 700gr bullets for your 500 mag :) or 350gr spire points (mine come out to 400gr) (assuming you don't have any already)
 
Uh, for machining the cases, why don't you try machining the case in a straightwall configuration and then neck it down? You can control the internal body thickness much more precisely that way. And you were talking about having to make dies, so why not make a couple of intermediary dies for sizing down? Then you'll always have them.

I thought the process that ammo manufacturers used stamping and drawing cases took into account the heat generated by the process to control the hardness of the brass? Kept it from cold working or somesuch.
 
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For anybody reading this thread who does not really know what this cartridge is... this was a vid I made a few weeks ago that is a pretty good intro course into the 14.5x114mm world.

 
This may be a bad idea but why not machine the head of the case from stainless And make the rest of the case from brass that is screwed to the head. I would be much simpler mating out the walls and neck if there were no base. I recall about 25 or 30 years ago this was tried with some belted magnum cases so they could operate at higher levels but never heard how the experiment turned out.
 
Neilm said:
This may be a bad idea but why not machine the head of the case from stainless And make the rest of the case from brass that is screwed to the head. I would be much simpler mating out the walls and neck if there were no base. I recall about 25 or 30 years ago this was tried with some belted magnum cases so they could operate at higher levels but never heard how the experiment turned out.
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I believe that's actually Casull's doings. Here's the article you may be referencing,






I may try something along these lines, if only by machining the case body from the rear and mating it with the case head later, by press-fit or something. I have updated my plan for the blind hole pocket boring bar, and it should work quite well now; from a few tests I've done during my lunch break, it should take about 8 passes to turn the inside of the case, each taking approximately 3 to 5 minutes on a manual machine, less when I get in the groove. I did get my steel in, picture related.



Also, I've ordered two pounds of powder, and CCI#35 primers from ATRS. It was awesome doing business with you guys.
 
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