Advantages and Disadvantages of P14 and P17 actions

This isn't exactly a Darcy Echols' custom rifle. But it is a P14 in .600JDJ and it feeds two of the big rounds out of the mag very smoothly. This solid bullet weighs 950 grains.
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Farmnut,In Canada there is no such thing as the M1917:p That is the Yankee term for a British rifle design.The Canadian Army used them during the war,they were referred to as P-17s by the Chief of Staff and by the minister of Defence C.D.Howe ,himself.The Army when they got them listed them as: Rifle 30 caliber but most or all memos called them P-17
 
bigbull said:
I thought you guys might like to see what some are doing with P14/17 Enfields. The first are my project 500 Jefferies in progress. The later pictures are some 500 Jefferies and 416 Rigby that Darcy Echols has build. These rifles have alot of potential and it shows that there is some serious coin being put into these projects, I think they are beautiful.
Enjoy
bigbull
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Bigbull, I must say these are the only P 14's I can recall seeing that actually are gorgeous!

How does one build up the reciever to get the double square bridges?
You have great taste and do fine work! Changing the bolt and the safety really dresses them up!

I started modifying a p17, thinking I could make a lightwieght out of it with hopes of making a 300 H&H. Recontoured the reciever (Winchester), shortened the mag box and straightened the floor plate, had started building a stock from scratch, all without very basic hand tools. I got so overwhelmed I sold it all for parts. Call me an over eager newbie!:rolleyes:

I would have to say the biggest strength of these old girls is the CRF, and an ability to house some of the biggest cases without too much work, and they are affordable to get in the first place. As compared to a good 98 action.

On the downside, my opinion is they are downright ugly until alot of effort is put in like Bigbulls here. I imagine it takes quite a bit of coin to make it look like that, in the neighborhood of $8000 or more when you are done. I hope I'm wrong and it is only a couple grand, then I'll find another and commence to start filing again!:D

Noel
 
Noel, I believe that the metalwork on the bottom rifle illustrated was done by Tom Burgess, a great old gentleman gunsmith. A spot on his waiting list was $3500 US the last time he and I spoke, if memory serves, and he isn't getting any younger (as are we all). He occasionally posts on Accuratereloading.com, you may be able to catch him there. As to the reshaping of the bridges, skillful welding and cutting and filing to shape is the way these are done. - dan
 
Wow to all those pics. I have a heavy barrelled 7.62 target Eddystone which I swapped the reciever on from a box of 10 at the Auctions for £20 the lolt. I am trying to get a Boyds Rio Sportsman at the moment but I want a blind magazine weel as it is still a single shot project. If I cant I have a Mauser Mk X secod hand stock with which I will block off the mag well and tweak and fit that. It was a freebie when visiting a shop in Birmingham as I had bought some odds and sodds he saw me looking at it, It was a repaired item, and said to take it for free. It wont look pretty but then many target stocks dont.
I saw Alain marions monster in the NRA museum and I thought I bodged stocks till then!
Maybe F class one day! It is a good barrel and has V bulls at 1000 yards in my hands!
 
Casull, it may not be an Echols but it's yours, nice rig, 600JDJ:eek: , I'm shure it would make a believer out of anybody who pulls the trigger!

Noel, the Jeffries is mine the others are customs by various builders. As for your question on the square bridges Dan answered it as well as I could.
The P17 series of rifles is as you said prefered as a large caliber action because of it's availability and suitability at a reasonable cost. Making these actions more esthetically apealing comes at a cost because not many can blend beauty and function at a reasonable cost, I have seen many with all kinds of work performed and there are no shortcuts you need the skill and machinery to execute a proffesional job. If it was a matter of a few file strokes, time and perserverence would make craftsmen out of all of us, but it takes more than this and the ones that can execute these jobs are far and few in between and most are getting a little old with failing eyesight and arthritic joints, the knowledge is being lost because most today prefer SS over rust blue and Kevlar over walnut.:( The P17 has mechanical advantages that the 98 does not, one is it's pure size, two it has lugs that have the locking surfaces cut on a helix that actually drives the bolt forward when lowering the bolt handle providing tremendous thrust to chamber any round, a #### on open bolt that provides great strength to hammer any primer that exists and a great safety that withdraws the firing pin and locks the bolt handle for great safety accessible from the pistol grip without moving your hand from position compared to say a M98. It is not my favorite action for customizing but it is agreat action when the cartridges are big and nasty. If you want to start another project try to find a BSA conversion that already has the ears off the hole plugged and a proper reciever contour, it would probably have a sporterized stock and this will provide a reasonable starting point from which to move forward, as a second option try looking for a Remington manufactured model since I believe thay don't have that ugly hole on top to plug up. By the way the reason the above rifle has that double square bridge is because the reciever is to be topped off with a quick release scope setup as evidenced by the grooves along the square bridges sides.
bigbull
 
Thanks for your wisdom bugbull.
If only I could afford to get all the training and then get a shop tooled up, I would build the classics just as you've pictured. What a dream that would be!
It would likely take half a career to just learn how these boys do their magic, but it would be worth it, in my eyes just to carry on such an art. I think I'm starting to curb the thread so I'd best just sit back and learn some more!

Thanks,
Noel
 
The steel in the Enfields is nickle steel,it the same steel as the pre WWII M-70s and very high number Springfields.For war-time production their quaility is very high. The M1917 ones don't need matching numbers,they were made to tighter specs to be interchangable. There are traces of them in Remington's M-700.
 
Mauser98 said:
Boyds makes a line of sporter stocks for the P14/M17 rifles that have had the bottom metal straightened.

w w w.boydboys.com

Also, A-Square Rifles uses the Enfield action in the building of their rifles

http://members.aol.com/riflemenky/Rifles.html
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You might want to check with them again on that.I have received 3 from them this year and they were all potbellied.I received one from Richards and it was staight.
Rich
 
Good point on the picture but if you ask them for a straight one they want your pattern and an extra set up charge. Way cheaper to go with Cary Stricker, Robert Wilson or David Henry or if you want glass Ian Robertson It would not be cheap to have Ian set up for the one you want but it sure would be unique.
Rich
 
Big Bull

Are you going to put in two cross bolts, and are you going to have a single stack magazine like the original 500 J or is it going to be staggered?

Nice pics of the double square bridge conversion.
 
The later manufacture Remington P14/M17s don't have the rear sight hole in the receiver, Remington got rid of it as an added (read more expensive) machining step. One less thing to worry about. As for removing the temper before welding, I would think the welding itself would solve that issue for you. After that, machine to rough dimensions and get your files out, then practice, practice, practice. hen reharden. It really is a LOT of work, but they are beautiful when they are done right. - dan
 
Slash5 said:
The post war commercial Remingtons look exactly like a sporterized P17. I guess it is properly a 1917. I looked at a 722 (I think) that at first I thought was a P17.
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Thats because remington had tons of leftover M1917 parts after WW1, resulting in the model 30 which stayed in production until WW2.
 
brno375 said:
Big Bull

Are you going to put in two cross bolts, and are you going to have a single stack magazine like the original 500 J or is it going to be staggered?

Nice pics of the double square bridge conversion.
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Therein lies my dilema:confused:

I have seen pictures of actions with "clips" both single and double where they guide the cartridge into the chamber in a straight feed manner and there are others that go conventional feeding through a staggered box magazine, one is more work but has smoother feeding due to the inline feed but the other is more classic but requires knowledge to achieve. The difference between the single and double clips is that the single clip pushes the cartridge into the left rail and all cartridges feed from the left side. I have seen a BRNO 602 modified to shoot the 500 Jeffries through a staggered box mag and it fed well, the only mod was the box itself was replaced for a wider box to accomodate the the proper stack width. I have also seen a M70 classic feed through a staggered box mag. So there are many options available I just have to decide:confused: I will put double crossbolts for shure and am also contemplating a barrel lug for additional insurance. I am lucky that the stock is a hunk of rock hard Bubinga wood and that makes me feel more at ease due to it's dense nature.
bigbull
 
downwindtracker2 said:
The steel in the Enfields is nickle steel,it the same steel as the pre WWII M-70s and very high number Springfields.For war-time production their quaility is very high. The M1917 ones don't need matching numbers,they were made to tighter specs to be interchangable. There are traces of them in Remington's M-700.
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You are correct the Enfields are nickel steel and are hardened through and through like the Winchesters so there is no worries that you cut through the case hardening like on a M98, I found the steel on my 500 to be quite hard but not to the extent that I have problems machining it with HSS cutters, thank god for that or it would be carbide cutters from the get go! The metal machines very well and surface finish is excellent. A file will work but it wouldn't last long before the surface finish started to show signs due to the files rapid wear, you need a very clean and sharp file to impart good surface finishes.
bigbull
 
Bigbull,
It's very interesting to hear you talking on this subject, you obviously know your stuff and it's great that you are sharing that knowledge, many of us are very interested.
What case is a .500 Jeffries based on? There was a P14 in this caliber for sale not long ago for $1800 with brass and dies, ammo. That seems like a very good price. I know all too well what it costs to build and gear up to shoot these big ones.
Thanks,
Rob
 
I don't mind the dog-leg,you can knock some of the corners off,but don't touch the root,that's your third lug. Bill,once about my Eddystone,"you can only make them less ugly" It's an action where fleur-de-lis,skip-line and even white lines can take your eyes off the action.
 
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