I have boxes of both. I haven't chrono'd them but they are not exactly the same. Just a visual inspection you can see the primer crimp, the red box has very sharp points while 193 is a little more rounded like a ball point pen, red box is polished better and shows no signs of anealing, 193 shows discoloration. There may be differences in powder, dimensions and case thickness. I haven't measured or even cared.