Affordlble non-restricted .223/5.56

andrew3081 said:
Did you shoot 5000 rounds through an XCR before you can to the conclusion that the XCR are garbage?




Like the rest of the mass produced guns, there will always be lemons produced.
We get it, you dislike the XCR.
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I never said the XCR is garbage, it's just not as good as and ACR or an AR or a Tavor in my opinion.

I can accept the odd lemon but the XCR just seems to have a few too many problems reported by too many people. There shouldn't be as many threads on this site with guys reporting broken rifles before they even get to 500 rounds.
I don't dislike the XCR I just think there are better rifles available for similar cost. The XCR has a lot of potential but after this many years and revisions I would have thought they would be closer to having it built right by now. They are a heck of a lot better than they used to be but it still has a ways to go.

Don't be offended just because you own one and someone else doesn't have great things to say about it. If you are happy with it then that's great, keep shooting it and enjoying it.
I've just never been impressed by them enough to justify buying one. I've shot every version but the newest keymod ones and they are ok but nothing special in my opinion and if I'm going to spend $2500+ on a rifle I'm not going to spend it on an XCR when I can get a used ACR and convert it to non restricted for the same money which is what I did.
I've owned most of the NR black rifles we have available to us in Canada and so far for my needs, wants and usage the ACR is top of my list but if my AR's were non restricted I doubt I'd own anything but them.
 
cr5 said:
I've owned most of the NR black rifles we have available to us in Canada and so far for my needs, wants and usage the ACR is top of my list but if my AR's were non restricted I doubt I'd own anything but them.
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X2. I couldn't agree with this anymore. I recently bought an ACR. Great rifle!! I really enjoy it. But for more than double my Daniel Defense M4V5 in price it's definetly not twice as good. In Canada it's always the big "IF". IF AR's were nonrestricted.
If AR's were nonrestricted I would only have AR's and my vz58's.
 
shawn said:
A 5 second google too hard for you?

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Shawn
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Wow, I guess the US has just as many gullible fan boys as we do for bullpup designs.. Although I doubt the Tavor or any other bullpup is taking over by storm.:p

TW25B
 
All too often people complaining that certain guns are garbage have never owned one much less even shot the one they are criticizing. I would take an XCR all day long. I have one, and will be the first to say that they are WAY OVERPRICED for what they are though.
 
jrcarbine said:
I've been trying to find a semi auto .223/5.56 AR-15 style rifle in the $1000 range. I'm going to start with firearms that are off my list.

I'm not a fan of the bullpup style like the tar-21 or norinco type 97. I want something more tactical then a m14 so norinco and ruger are off too. The colt Canada 5.56 ar looks way too long and it's fairly pricey. Benelli MR-1 also pricey and not the style I'm looking for.

Now, the two rifles I do like:

The bushmaster ARC is badass. But the price is way to high. If it was in the $1000 range that would be the number one choice. SU-16 would be a affordable option, but I heard many bad things about them, like accuracy and receivers blowing up. I think they worked out the kinks though. Now if I took a SU-16 and bought some aftermarket accessories, I sure can make it look like a AR style rifle for around $1300 bucks.

What do you guys think? Any other rifles I'm missing?
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I know you mentioned no Mini 14, hmmmm let me see so what I can suggest. Oh ya how about a MINI 14 'cause there is no better lower priced 223/556 on the market. You can change the stock to any tactical flavour you choose and switch it back when you are bored.
 
TW25B said:
Wow, I guess the US has just as many gullible fan boys as we do for bullpup designs.. Although I doubt the Tavor or any other bullpup is taking over by storm.:p

TW25B
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Yup, I had played with 4 unimpressive Tavors before I finally decided to give one a real try and made a trade to get my own gen 2. I owned it for a little over a month and ran a few hundred rounds through it split between the range and using it at my buddy's farm before deciding I could definitely live without one. Nothing wrong with it really, but shooting it didn't make me smile like my NR ACR, AR-180B, or my AR's do.
The best thing about the Tavor is that it's small but other than that it's just a lot of money for a rifle that doesn't do anything better than most other rifles. It is built well and was reliable for the limited time I had it but I didn't feel it was worth the amount of money it costs. I would definitely rather have one of them over an XCR but I think it's pretty obvious by now that I'll never buy an XCR.


Ohno said:
Did anyone mention the Jard J48. NR 223 semi rifle available in Canada...just not right now.
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Do you have details as to why they aren't available? Their website shows them having an FRT number already.
 
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jrcarbine said:
Anyone have experience with the newer su-16's?
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Yup.
Not too shabby for what they are - an inexpensive paper puncher.
I'm into it for about $1000 with the AR stock, grip and forend kit.
Picked up an Bushnell TRS-25 on Craig's for $40 so it keeps its super light weight
Takes Ar mags (which the mini does not)
Used the .50 Beowulf mags from press check and worked not too bad - a few ftf & fte using American eagle black box
(but they aren't the best mags around)
Waiting to see how the C Defense Beowulf mags work in it.
Hope that helps.
 
cr5 said:
Yup, I had played with 4 unimpressive Tavors before I finally decided to give one a real try and made a trade to get my own gen 2. I owned it for a little over a month and ran a few hundred rounds through it split between the range and using it at my buddy's farm before deciding I could definitely live without one. Nothing wrong with it really, but shooting it didn't make me smile like my NR ACR, AR-180B, or my AR's do.
The best thing about the Tavor is that it's small but other than that it's just a lot of money for a rifle that doesn't do anything better than most other rifles. It is built well and was reliable for the limited time I had it but I din't feel it was worth the amount of money it costs. I would definitely rather have one of them over an XCR but I think it's pretty obvious by now that I'll never buy an XCR....
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It amazes me how people haven't clued in to the gouging that occurs when buying a Tavor. The Americans finally got their Tavors what, like two years ago? Their intro price was $1600 USD and that was when our dollar was almost on par. So why are we paying a full grand more? What's also not considered is that the IDF decided to design and adopt the rifle as a CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE TO THE AR rifle. So if the Tavor was/is cheaper to produce than an AR then why are we paying well over a grand above AR prices for the cheaper alternative??? The non res status seems to be an excuse for vendors to stick it right up our A$$ when it comes to price.. The XCR, ACR, Swiss and FAMAE are no different.

TW25B
 
TW25B said:
It amazes me how people haven't clued in to the gouging that occurs when buying a Tavor. The Americans finally got their Tavors what, like two years ago? Their intro price was $1600 USD and that was when our dollar was almost on par. So why are we paying a full grand more? What's also not considered is that the IDF decided to design and adopt the rifle as a CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE TO THE AR rifle. So if the Tavor was/is cheaper to produce than an AR then why are we paying well over a grand above AR prices for the cheaper alternative??? The non res status seems to be an excuse for vendors to stick it right up our A$$ when it comes to price.. The XCR, ACR, Swiss and FAMAE are no different.

TW25B
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You asked for sources earlier, so now its my turn. Where have you read the Tav is a cheaper solution than an AR?

The Tav was designed to be a minute of hamass, providing rifle length velocity in a compact sub gun size and being easily manageable by all conscripts (women are 1/2 of the IDF) were the goals. Judging by how many wives/gf's steal CGNers Tavors for thier own, its apparent the goals were all checked off 1 by 1.


The Tavor is absolutely overpriced as is every other NR black rifle. We are prayed upon heavily buy our importers and retailers, but unfortunately I would rather have the option to spend my money on overpriced goods then not have the option.
 
onetwentyish said:
You asked for sources earlier, so now its my turn. Where have you read the Tav is a cheaper solution than an AR?

The Tav was designed to be a minute of hamass, providing rifle length velocity in a compact sub gun size and being easily manageable by all conscripts (women are 1/2 of the IDF) were the goals. Judging by how many wives/gf's steal CGNers Tavors for thier own, its apparent the goals were all checked off 1 by 1.


The Tavor is absolutely overpriced as is every other NR black rifle. We are prayed upon heavily buy our importers and retailers, but unfortunately I would rather have the option to spend my money on overpriced goods then not have the option.
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its true my wife stole my tavor
 
I don't know anymore about the J48 than anyone else here. I just read the boards and there was a big hoopla around these a couple months ago and then nothing.
If they ever get the issues sorted out they could be a NR 223 semi option as they have an FRT unlike the MPAR, ARX and Type 03 or any number of other rifles awaiting the FRT gods to grant them status one way or the other.
 
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