Affordlble non-restricted .223/5.56

[mikethebike]

We're still waiting for the hk 243, the beretta arx

 

[GunsNotPuns]

But hey, YOU keep dreaming of that unicorn NR 223 for $1000 bucks, while i go shoot my crap KelTec

You are aware of the unicorn called the Vz.58...that's non-restricted...and in .223....and costs $1099. They're so rare you can buy them at multiple retailers both online and in the meat world.

 

[Still alive]

We're still waiting for the hk 243, the beretta arx

Mike, you might find the Beretta a bit disappointing. The only thing going for it is it is very light. It will probably be the lightest NR we can get ( IF it is actually going to be NR!)
It feels completely plasticky and the controls are small.

 

[mikethebike]

You are aware of the unicorn called the Vz.58...that's non-restricted...and in .223....and costs $1099. They're so rare you can buy them at multiple retailers both online and in the meat world.

Mike, you might find the Beretta a bit disappointing. The only thing going for it is it is very light. It will probably be the lightest NR we can get ( IF it is actually going to be NR!)
It feels completely plasticky and the controls are small.

yah Im afraid of that, Idhave to try one out for a few shots before dropping that amount of cash.

 

[Still alive]

They are pretty though!
Here's a shot from SHOT this year. ( Pun intended!) I think these were 16" barrels.

 

[Red_Liner740]

Ofcourse i'm aware of it, he has already dismissed it, along with the t-97...Hence the Unicorn.

When you dismiss every single rifle in your price range and still ask for a 223 tactical semi auto in the that price range, you are in essence asking for unattainable, aka the Unicorn.

If i was in his shoes. I wouldnt even look at the 223. CZ858, Wartak rail, magwell adapter for 10 rounders and call it a day.

You are aware of the unicorn called the Vz.58...that's non-restricted...and in .223....and costs $1099. They're so rare you can buy them at multiple retailers both online and in the meat world.

 

[jrcarbine]

500 rounds is nothing, come back and tell us how it is after 5000 rounds.




Looking bad ass means nothing, if all you want is to look cool then buy whatever you want or consider airsoft but if you want quality you're going to have to spend more than $1000.

The closest rifle to what you want would be an AR-180B which can be bought used off the EE for $1400-$1800. Armalite discontinued them a few years ago so no option to buy new. The rifle is simple, reliable and more than accurate enough for battle rifle duties, it's definitely no sniper rifle but it will do what it was designed to do and is as accurate as a Tavor or XCR-L.

Alright buddy. The jr is a very well built carbine, it will take 5000 no problem if cleaned after shooting.

 

[jrcarbine]

ha the xcr hater most of them never use one and for the few that had one didnt shot it enough , always having the main reason the poor accuracy maybe it just you guys not the rifle it more easy to blame an inanimate object than yourself ....

Same with the people that hate jr's and su-16's. They never touched one, but they hate them.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Shot a Vz858 yesterday for the first time... Needless to say it's now my new truck gun. thats all its good for...

 

[Mopar318]

wow

 

[TW25B]

Well... Im also not a big fan of it, but just for 2 reasons. I facking hate all the versions of the stock, and it has the same accuracy as my 200$ sks.
Other than that its an ok rifle, Ive seen and handled much worse crap, even dangerous to the shooter crap.

True, it isn't the worst POS but it is grossly over priced and not of the highest quality.

I know you mentioned no Ruger but throw the mini14 in a sparta and you have a pretty decent black rifle for around a grand and a bit and they hold there value as well as being reliable??
this is a mini30 but same thing as far as looks

So why mention it if the OP specifically said that he was not interested in a Ruger? As another member said, they're heavy as f**k, and not overly accurate. Not to mention they never saw service either so the stock systems available are purely for the wannabe look.. Just saying.

Not to be a smartass or rag on ya but....why does it have to be 223?

Frankly the round is a varmint rd...poor performance on anything other than..varmints..and small ones.
Once you leave the 223 rd behind there are many good choices in NR semis out there. You also have to leave behind the "tactical" thing behind too...

If you want/need "tactical" in 223 NR get out your wallet...there are plenty of companies who have created just what you are looking for..at ridiculous price for value.
If you are satisfied with the 223 as far as ballistics go...then consider leaving behind semi....do you really need it? Get better at gun handling/loading/rifle skills...and enjoy sooo much more value for your money in a 223.

Lastly...what is so repulsive with the Mini14? Good quality/handling/size/function/reliability/aftermarket support. Current models are as accurate as a similarily priced AR.

I own and shoot AR's...they are very cool/easy to shoot well, work on, play with..being able to swap out parts from gun to gun is awesome....BUT the fun stops when I leave the range....or until the law laxes and or the world goes to hell...the latter far more likely.

These are the only ways to get yer' semi 223 on outside of the range.

Frankly my bone stock as issued SKS's are a waaayyy better go for CDN real world semi auto rifle needs. Available/cheap/compact/reliable/easy to work on and repair/tough/ and fire a waayyy more suitable round for the real world needs of a CDN whether it's hunting, protection, varmint control, security, plinking etc.....with ammo both plentiful/affordable. If one feels the need/want to be cooler/tactical there is plenty of crap out there to satisfy.
Most if not all dangerous predators.... thumbs or no thumbs.... in NA can be taken down with 7.62x39....notsomuch with the 223...especially when there's cover and or the hits aren't accurate.

For smaller varmint protection/control/defense and any other use where a 223 semi fits the bill...in Canada a Mini 14 is the obvious and sole choice under or ~ $1K.
Fast follow up shots, being able to dismount the mag to satisfy the law ..on/off/in/out of vehicles, compact, reliable, quality built, practical accuracy...it's got it all in spades.
After this a lever in 357 or 3030 becomes the next to deliver these goods.
Then a purpose built bolt gun adopting the same characteristics.

The .223 cartridge is plentiful, cheap and non corrosive unlike the majority of 7.62x39.

Your assessment of the SKS is not overly accurate. It isn't compact, nor lightweight. It groups like an 8" smooth bore shotgun and the aftermarket accessories are of lesser quality than the rifle itself. Shot placement is the most crucial element regardless of calibre so the 7.62x39 has no "margin of error" advantage over .223, which has been killing people and game for over half a century just like the 7.62x39.

The mini is a ripoff and a slightly better built American version of the SKS. The VZ line is a much superior choice that weighs less, built better and groups well.

Here's one that we may hopefully be getting soon. You will have to save up a bit more though!

Another low end offering from Keltec... I'm waiting anxiously for this one......

I could say the same thing for tavor and ACR but hey that's just my opinion.

I agree, both the ACR and Tavor are also over priced and over hyped. Although the Tavor has seen service.

ha the xcr hater most of them never use one and for the few that had one didnt shot it enough , always having the main reason the poor accuracy maybe it just you guys not the rifle it more easy to blame an inanimate object than yourself ....

The XCR is a poorly designed and made wannabe service rifle offered by one of the most bat sh*t crazy people in the firearms industry. They are nose heavy, less than reliable and offer marginal to poor accuracy. Not a bad choice, if it wasn't about $1500 over priced..

Except you would be wrong LOL

The tavor has been in service with the IDF for over 14 years. As well as in:

Angola
Azerbaijan
Brazil
Cameroon
Chad
Chile
Colombia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Guatemala
Honduras
India
Macedonia
Mexico
Nepal
Nigeria
Peru
Philippines
Portugal
Thailand
Turkey
Ukraine
Vietnam
USA

And the ACR is in service in Poland

Shawn

The US are not fielding the Tavor with the military. Being sold to the public does not constitute being "in service".

Same with the people that hate jr's and su-16's. They never touched one, but they hate them.

Handled a few, shot one, and laughed the whole time. Wondered how anyone could legally sell such a poorly made(see dangerous) POS and still sleep at night. I had a sub 2000 for a while, it was kind of fun but not reliable and the screws that held it together would back off. Promptly sold it.

TW25B

 

[shawn]

The US are not fielding the Tavor with the military. Being sold to the public does not constitute being "in service".

Never said it was.

There are many police forces issuing it.

Shawn

 

[onetwentyish]

US Tavors have seen service and adoption in many Police departments.

 

[GunsNotPuns]

Ofcourse i'm aware of it, he has already dismissed it, along with the t-97...Hence the Unicorn.

When you dismiss every single rifle in your price range and still ask for a 223 tactical semi auto in the that price range, you are in essence asking for unattainable, aka the Unicorn.

If i was in his shoes. I wouldnt even look at the 223. CZ858, Wartak rail, magwell adapter for 10 rounders and call it a day.

Ah, my apologies. I must have missed the post where he thumbs-downed the Vz.58.

Well, it would appear that OP wants some form of Unobtainium then. Checking out of this thread.

 

[lone-wolf]

I also like the mini14 more than the vz58(I also own both). The ruger is easier to scope and comes with better irons sights. I also like the aftermarket scout rail options(ultimak) for the ruger better. The problem with ruger is the magazines, but I have found an importer who ordered me four 5/20rd mags for $200 Canadian.

 

[TW25B]

Never said it was.

There are many police forces issuing it.

Shawn

US Tavors have seen service and adoption in many Police departments.

Proof with articles or pictures or it didn't happen.

TW25B

 

[lone-wolf]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ate-capitol-police-adopt-iwi-tavor-sar-rifle/
http://gunssavelives.net/gun-indust...selects-iwi-tavor-as-their-new-service-rifle/

 

[shawn]

Proof with articles or pictures or it didn't happen.

TW25B

A 5 second google too hard for you?

Shawn

 

[rhino62]

Csa vz58 223 with mag adapter

 

[Tango4N]

SU-16 works well for me. No problems.

If ARs were non-restricted this would be a non-issue. AR all the way.

But that is not life. So SU-16 it is. I have an AR-180B as well but it is not for sale. People look at you strange with that one. Not so much with the SU-16. Not that it should matter....