No fixed mount, just a pre-determined line of final protective fire (FPF). Same deal today, just much less common. I'm not sure what they called it back then.
Aiming a Machinegun
- Thread starter Bigbill
- Start date
No fixed mount, just a pre-determined line of final protective fire (FPF). Same deal today, just much less common. I'm not sure what they called it back then.
Back in WW1 machine guns would be laid at certain intervals and setup to hit at knee level or so. The idea being that once you got 2 or more of them working as a team, you would just basically "walk" rounds back and forth and make it rather unpleasant for infantry in the triangle-ish section where both field of fire collide.
Also during WWI there was a sustained fire mount much like the tripod used with the C6 (MAG58) today, it was sighted onto trench intersections and an observer would control the firing of the MG when a large group of Germans would enter the intersection the MG would open up. The Germans called it the whispering death as the MG was too far away for the report reach the targeted area. to answer to original question the modern MG is aimed exactly like a rifle for it's first burst then the gunner can either continue to use the sights and fire in bursts or use the tracer trails to 'walk' the MG fire onto his target. Usually there are only three burst lengths used: Ranging 3-5 rds, Killing 7-15 rds or Anti-aircraft whole belt. these burst length are used to conserve ammo, maintain effectiveness, and reduces component failure (bent barrel).
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
There was a case in WW1 where the British were expecting a german attack.
Six vickers fired continualy into the german rear assembly areas going through over ONE MILLION ROUNDS! Firing only stopped to change belts, add water and change barrels. The guns showed virtualy no wear at the end.
(aside from the replaced parts.)
Obviously the germans never were able to mount their push.
Six vickers fired continualy into the german rear assembly areas going through over ONE MILLION ROUNDS! Firing only stopped to change belts, add water and change barrels. The guns showed virtualy no wear at the end.
(aside from the replaced parts.)
Obviously the germans never were able to mount their push.
Ambush Situation
Early Nineties 4 CMBG Gun camp in Vogalsain im der Efiel. Awsome training facility. Anyway I was a C-9 Gunner. You know the little 5.56mm Minime. Holds a 200 round box mag linked with tracer. Rate of fire approx Typo, 1150 rpm on high rate.
Situation, myself and 4 C-7 Rifleman in the back of a British Lori driving down a road heading into a pre-arranged live fire ambush situation. Once lori entered the left arc of the range, across a little river about 50 to 75 yards on the other side there was a bank. That is where the figure 11 man size pop up targets came up.
Training says 3-4 second burst from my C-9. But training also says in an Ambush WIN THE FIRE FIGHT. YOU DO THAT BY PUTTING MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF ROUNDS AT THE TARGET.
NUFF SAID.
How I aimed my MG, was very simple. I depressed the trigger and at 50 yards firing 1150rpm I simply watched the targets disappear in the ensuing rain of hell fire. Starting from left to right I adjust my aim very easily as I swung my C-9 across the enemy line. I fired no burst. I basically emptied my 200 rounds in short order.
The threat was eliminated. All targets were gone (they go down on a hit) and took ribbing from my fellow rifleman as they never had a chance to shoot a target.
British Officer sitting behind me, says to our Canadian Officer.. "Who is that LMG Man, Goddamn he's good"
Squadron RSM, in the rear area say "Was that you Leonard shooting that long burst?"
Me "Yes Sir"
RSM, "f**king A"
So there it is. When shooting a MG and how to aim it you figure it out pretty quick.
Early Nineties 4 CMBG Gun camp in Vogalsain im der Efiel. Awsome training facility. Anyway I was a C-9 Gunner. You know the little 5.56mm Minime. Holds a 200 round box mag linked with tracer. Rate of fire approx Typo, 1150 rpm on high rate.
Situation, myself and 4 C-7 Rifleman in the back of a British Lori driving down a road heading into a pre-arranged live fire ambush situation. Once lori entered the left arc of the range, across a little river about 50 to 75 yards on the other side there was a bank. That is where the figure 11 man size pop up targets came up.
Training says 3-4 second burst from my C-9. But training also says in an Ambush WIN THE FIRE FIGHT. YOU DO THAT BY PUTTING MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF ROUNDS AT THE TARGET.
NUFF SAID.
How I aimed my MG, was very simple. I depressed the trigger and at 50 yards firing 1150rpm I simply watched the targets disappear in the ensuing rain of hell fire. Starting from left to right I adjust my aim very easily as I swung my C-9 across the enemy line. I fired no burst. I basically emptied my 200 rounds in short order.
The threat was eliminated. All targets were gone (they go down on a hit) and took ribbing from my fellow rifleman as they never had a chance to shoot a target.
British Officer sitting behind me, says to our Canadian Officer.. "Who is that LMG Man, Goddamn he's good"
Squadron RSM, in the rear area say "Was that you Leonard shooting that long burst?"
Me "Yes Sir"
RSM, "f**king A"
So there it is. When shooting a MG and how to aim it you figure it out pretty quick.
Last edited:
Early Nineties 4 CMBG Gun camp in Vogalsain im der Efiel. Awsome training facility. Anyway I was a C-9 Gunner. You know the little 5.56mm Minime. Holds a 200 round box mag linked with tracer. Rate of fire approx 1600 rpm on high rate.
Situation, myself and 4 C-7 Rifleman in the back of a British Lori driving down a road heading into a pre-arranged live fire ambush situation. Once lori entered the left arc of the range, across a little river about 50 to 75 yards on the other side there was a bank. That is where the figure 11 man size pop up targets came up.
Training says 3-4 second burst from my C-9. But training also says in an Ambush WIN THE FIRE FIGHT. YOU DO THAT BY PUTTING MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF ROUNDS AT THE TARGET.
NUFF SAID.
How I aimed my MG, was very simple. I depressed the trigger and at 50 yards firing 1600rpm I simply watched the targets disappear in the ensuing rain of hell fire. Starting from left to right I adjust my aim very easily as I swung my C-9 across the enemy line. I fired no burst. I basically emptied my 200 rounds in short order.
The threat was eliminated. All targets were gone (they go down on a hit) and took ribbing from my fellow rifleman as they never had a chance to shoot a target.
British Officer sitting behind me, says to our Canadian Officer.. "Who is that LMG Man, Goddamn he's good"
Squadron RSM, in the rear area say "Was that you Leonard shooting that long burst?"
Me "Yes Sir"
RSM, "f**king A"
So there it is. When shooting a MG and how to aim it you figure it out pretty quick.
Hate to correct you, But the C9 LMG is only 800-1000 RPM pending gas setting, Normal or Adverse. MG 42 was the fast firing Machine Gun in the world and it was only 1200 RPM, Unless you get into Mini Guns....
I have a semi auto browning 1919 with the orig ww2 tripod
now this thing is VERY accurate I can just by walking my fire hit clay birds on the 100 yard berm I can and have done the same thing out to 300
so im guessing useing short bursts or just holding it down you could easily walk your fire to the target
or once you have the tripod and sights dialed in you can use the adjustment to get 1st shot damm near the target
now this thing is VERY accurate I can just by walking my fire hit clay birds on the 100 yard berm I can and have done the same thing out to 300
so im guessing useing short bursts or just holding it down you could easily walk your fire to the target
or once you have the tripod and sights dialed in you can use the adjustment to get 1st shot damm near the target
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Back when I was in getting the machinegun course was like a gift from the ballistics gods, it was almost a given that whoever had that course and passed it would be in line for the next Junior Leadership Course. I loved firing the C5 mg and the C9 fwiw.
Typo,, actuall Rate of fire is 800 to 1150 rpm. We called Adverse High rate. Anyway 1150 rpm did the job. Now instead of picking fly #### out of pepper, why don't you post one of your stories about how to aim a MG....
Typo,, actuall Rate of fire is 800 to 1150 rpm. We called Adverse High rate. Anyway 1150 rpm did the job. Now instead of picking fly s**t out of pepper, why don't you post one of your stories about how to aim a MG....
Easy, Place sight on target ( guess the range from what you know ), fire a burst, make adjustments, either drop whatever or add whatever and give'r.
How you aim a machine gun and get it on target....
Skill how to use a machine gun is knowing your equipment. Anyone can use one, using it well thats the key, knowing your drills, keeping it cleaned and oiled, knowing what setting to use it and what setting for your spare barrel is good thing to know, epically using the COAX gas regulators.. Changing belts should only take less then 9 seconds, I could do it in less then 5.
Using the C6 GMPG 762 MG is wee bit harder on the tripod and using the C2 mortar sight, that takes skill getting the gun on target, making adjustments fast and marking and recording the target for future engagements.
I never really played with the C9 other then yearly qualify on it, Being I did not like it and rather go big or go home and use the C6 GPMG. Now that was my toy for 4 years, Shot that thing accurate and well out to 1500m. Nearly shot a moose at that range when we used this pile of rocks as a target, that ended up being 2 moose going at it near it. Well at 1500m without binos at the time, we did not know. Till we saw what we thought were rocks moving quite fast....
First burst just past the heads of the two. Shucks
Cease Fire.......When I still was gun ho in the unit and were on C6 ranges for the weapon det, We had 2 gun teams, wile shooting at the ranges down in the states, 3 out of 4 people just were fresh off their machine gunner course and all ways coming up to me with gun problems and how to do this and that. By far I was much faster then them, night and day using the equipment.
Them being slower and not as skilled, We could not finish the ammo we had there and had to turn in 5 crates of ammo, 4400 rds of 762
Being well equipment breaking and well no more light. I got plenty of stories.....
Machine gun courses used to be very long and complex back in the day of the water cooled Vickers.In addition to direct fire tasks which have been discussed quite extensively,the Vickers had the capability to be used for long range predicted indirect or "plunging" fire to harass rear areas or supress enemy movement in response to an attack.The heavy tripod mount,sight accessories to establish elevations in connection with range and trajectory tables and sustained fire capability would enable such tasks to be performed for extended periods.An thousands of rounds were fired on this type of mission.I have a lifelong family friend who was a machine gunner in the Saskatoon Light Infantry in Italy (the support bn of 1 Cdn Inf Div) and have discussed the use of the Vickers with him in this role,or as he called it,"hailing the Jerries".It cut both ways though as he was pretty badly shot up by mortar fire while so engaged. I recall a CFR Capt back in PPCLI days in the early '70s telling me that he was on one of the last of these elaborate machine gunner's courses shortly before the Korean War.Personally,I loved the .50 cal Browning fired from the commander's cupola on the M113. Big leopard cough in a 4-5 rd burst and a big tracer way out there to correct on. I remember a day on the range in Wainwright where we finished off a number of .50 cal barrels which were on the verge of condemnation from wear.We held them open in sustained fire to the point where the barrels washed out and tracer was looping erratically not too far from the muzzle.Great fun with free ammo and somebody had to push those barrels to the point of unservicability.
Do you know if this is true? Any details about what units, when etc. or references to something published? Sounds like something I'd want to read more about
Vickers 1916
"The Vickers gun accompanied the BEF to France in 1914, and in the years that followed proved itself to be the most reliable weapon on the battlefield, some of its feats of endurance entering military mythology. Perhaps the most incredible was the action by the 100th Company of the Machine Gun Corps at High Wood on August 24, 1916. This company had ten Vickers guns, and it was ordered to give sustained covering fire for 12 hours onto a selected area 2,000 yards away in order to prevent German troops forming up there for a counter-attack while a British attack was in progress. Two whole companies of infantrymen were allocated as carriers of ammunition, rations and water for the machine-gunners. Two men worked a belt-filling machine non-stop for 12 hours keeping up a supply of 250-round belts. One hundred new barrels were used up, and every drop of water in the neighbourhood, including the men’s drinking water and contents of the latrine buckets, went up in steam to keep the guns cool. And in that 12-hour period the ten guns fired a million rounds between them. One team fired 120,000 from one gun to win a five-franc prize offered to the highest-scoring gun. And at the end of that 12 hours every gun was working perfectly and not one gun had broken down during the whole period. It was this absolute foolproof reliability which endeared the Vickers to every British soldier who ever fired one. It never broke down; it just kept on firing and came back for more. And that was why the Mark 1 Vickers gun was to remain the standard medium machine-gun from 1912 to 1968."
Hogg, Ian V.; Batchelor, John (1976). Weapons & War Machines. London: Phoebus, p. 62.
"The Vickers gun accompanied the BEF to France in 1914, and in the years that followed proved itself to be the most reliable weapon on the battlefield, some of its feats of endurance entering military mythology. Perhaps the most incredible was the action by the 100th Company of the Machine Gun Corps at High Wood on August 24, 1916. This company had ten Vickers guns, and it was ordered to give sustained covering fire for 12 hours onto a selected area 2,000 yards away in order to prevent German troops forming up there for a counter-attack while a British attack was in progress. Two whole companies of infantrymen were allocated as carriers of ammunition, rations and water for the machine-gunners. Two men worked a belt-filling machine non-stop for 12 hours keeping up a supply of 250-round belts. One hundred new barrels were used up, and every drop of water in the neighbourhood, including the men’s drinking water and contents of the latrine buckets, went up in steam to keep the guns cool. And in that 12-hour period the ten guns fired a million rounds between them. One team fired 120,000 from one gun to win a five-franc prize offered to the highest-scoring gun. And at the end of that 12 hours every gun was working perfectly and not one gun had broken down during the whole period. It was this absolute foolproof reliability which endeared the Vickers to every British soldier who ever fired one. It never broke down; it just kept on firing and came back for more. And that was why the Mark 1 Vickers gun was to remain the standard medium machine-gun from 1912 to 1968."
Hogg, Ian V.; Batchelor, John (1976). Weapons & War Machines. London: Phoebus, p. 62.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Thanks Bill.
I did get the number wrong but that was the incident.
I did correspond with a serving British officer who collects vickers stuff. He was on an armourers course at one time.
When the Vickers was going out of service, They picked one gun out of the batch they were working on and gaged all the parts. The gun was then taken out to the range and fired continuously for 24 hours with only time taken out to change barrels and belts and add water. (obviously they took turns firing) I suppose there was a break to shovel away the empty brass.
At the end of the session, the gun was returned to the armoury and the parts again gaged. No wear was found.
I did get the number wrong but that was the incident.
I did correspond with a serving British officer who collects vickers stuff. He was on an armourers course at one time.
When the Vickers was going out of service, They picked one gun out of the batch they were working on and gaged all the parts. The gun was then taken out to the range and fired continuously for 24 hours with only time taken out to change barrels and belts and add water. (obviously they took turns firing) I suppose there was a break to shovel away the empty brass.
At the end of the session, the gun was returned to the armoury and the parts again gaged. No wear was found.
longbranch*
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria,BC.
Machine gun
My Grandfather was with the C.M.G.C. in the Great war. I recall him mentioning the term "Firing by map".
Geoff in Victoria
My Grandfather was with the C.M.G.C. in the Great war. I recall him mentioning the term "Firing by map".
Geoff in Victoria
We got a restored Vickers Machine Gun sitting on the Mantle of our officers Mess. Our very own weapon tech took his own time, money etc and restored it to like new issued. Its very nice....
If I could get into the mess, I'll take pictures of it....
If I could get into the mess, I'll take pictures of it....
