Aiming a Machinegun
- Thread starter Bigbill
- Start date
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Fusileer Derek Kinne , Royal Northumberland Fusileers. He won the GC as a POW for being what the chinese called "uncooperative" the other GC was posthumous to an officer.
He does live in Tucson. I really treasure the Victoria Cross and George Cross Christmas cards I have gotten from him over the years and have kept every one.
If you are interested, I have a copy of the newspaper article on how he earned the GC
I also have a framed first day postal issue of the 50th anniversary of the GC signed by him and a few other winners. NO, IT IS NOT FOR SALE.
I first met him when he was running a picture framing shop in town which he has since retired from
He was at the dedication of the VC and GC memorial in Westminster.
.Couple of ancedotes.
When he was in hospital an officer visited and said "I'm not supposed to tell you this but you are getting the GC" His response, not realising what he was getting was "I was hoping it would be an MM!" LOL
Since he did not have a car, he hired a taxi to take him to Buckingham palace for the award. The cab driver said "I can't go there" He Replied I have a invitation" When they got there the policeman at the gate said "You can't go in" until shown the paperwork. The cabbie refused payment for the ride.
While waiting for the ceremony to start. he was engaged in conversation by one of the other people waiting for an award who asked him what he did. He replied "Im only a private soldier. the other person walked off, not wanting to associate with someone not of his "class"
However, when they lined up for their awards Derek was FIRST in the line while the other guy was WAAAY in the back!
Now when you are getting a award from the Queen, you are supposed to sew a little hook on your clothing, so the Queen just hangs the medal on that hook. However noboby told him about that, so when the time came. the Queen said "you havent got a hook" he replied that nobody told him about that, so she pinned the medal on him.
One more bit. Korea was his second enlistment. His first was in a Scottich regiment (even though he is not a Scot) His sgt. at that time said he "would never make a soldier" His brother was killed in Korea, so he re enlisted to get a bit of revenge.
Last edited:
RevolverRodger
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in QC
Good story
Thanks
Thanks
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Oh what the heck, here it is:LOOONG
The London Gazette 13th April 1954
In August, 1950 Fusileer Kinne volunteered for service in Korea. He joined the 1st Battalion, The Royal Northumnberland Fusileers and was captured by chinese communist forces on 25th April 1951. The last day of the Imjim River Battle. From then on, he had only two objects in mind: firstly to escape, and secondly, by his contempt for his captors and their behaviour, and his utter disregard for the treatment meted out to to him, to raise the morale of his fellow prisoners. The treatment which he recieved during his period of captivity is summarized in the succeeding paragraphs.
Fuslieer Kinne escaped for the first time within 24 hours of capture, but was retaken a few days later while attempting to regain our own lines. Eventually he rejoined a large group of prisoners being marched north to prison camps, and despite the hardships of this march, which lasted a month, rapidly emerged as a man of outstanding leadership and very high morale. His conduct was a fine example to all his fellow prisoners.
In July, 1952, Fusileer Kinne, who was by now well known to his captors, was accused by them of being non-cooperative and was brutally interrogated about the other P.W. who had un-cooperative views. As a result of his refusal to inform on his comrades, and for striking back at a chinese officer who assaulted him,he was twice severely beaten up and tied up for periods of 12 and 24 hours, being made to stand on tip toe with a running noose round his neck which would throttle him if he attempted to relax in any way.
He escaped on 27th July but was recaptured two days later. He was again beaten up very severely, and placed in handcuffs which could be and frequently were tightened so as to restrict circulation, from which he was not released until October 1952, a period of 61 days.
He was accused of insincerity, a hostile attitude towards the chinese, "sabatoge" of compulsory political study, escape, and of being reactionary. From 156h to 20th August, he was confined in a very small box cell, where he was made to sit to attention all day, being periodicaly beaten, prodded with bayonets, kicked, and spat upon by the guards, and demied any washing facilities.
On 29th August, 1952 he was made to stand at attention for seven hours and when he complained, was beaten by the chinese guard commander with the butt of a submachine gun, which eventualy went off and killed the guard commander. For this, Fusileer Kinne ws beaten senseless whth belts and bayonets, stripped of his clothes, and thrown into a dark rat-infested hole until 19th September. He was frequently taken out and beaten, including once on 16the September with pieces of planking until he was unconscious.
On 16h October, Fusileer Kinne was tried by a chinese military court for escape and being a reactionary and hostile to the chinese, and was sentenced to twelve months solitary confinement. This was increased to eighteen months when he complained on his trial of denial of medical attention, including that for a severe double hernia which he had sustained in June 1953 while while training to escape.
On 5th December, 1952, he was transferrwed to a special penal company. His last award of solitary confinement was on 2nd June 1953, when he was sentenced for defying chinese orders and wearing and wearing a rosette in celebration of of Coronation day.
Hw was eventualy exchanged at Panmunjon on 10th August 1953. As late as 8th and 9th august, he was threatened with non-repatriation for demanding an interview with the International Red Cross representatives who were visiting prisoner of war camps.
Fusileer Kinne was during the course of his periods of solitary confinement kept in no less than seven different places of imprisonment, including a security police gaol, under condiutions of the most extreme degradation and increasing brutality. Every possible method both physical and mental was employed by his captors to break his spirit, a task which proved utterly beyond their powers. Latterly, he must been fully aware that every time he flaunted his captors and showed openly his detestation of themselves and their methods he was risking his life. He was in fact determined to show that he was prepared neither to be intimidated nor cowed by brutal treatment at the hands of a barbarbous enemy.
His powers of resistance and his determination to oppose and fight the enemy to the maximum were beyond praise. His example was an inspiration to all ranks who came in contact with him.
The London Gazette 13th April 1954
In August, 1950 Fusileer Kinne volunteered for service in Korea. He joined the 1st Battalion, The Royal Northumnberland Fusileers and was captured by chinese communist forces on 25th April 1951. The last day of the Imjim River Battle. From then on, he had only two objects in mind: firstly to escape, and secondly, by his contempt for his captors and their behaviour, and his utter disregard for the treatment meted out to to him, to raise the morale of his fellow prisoners. The treatment which he recieved during his period of captivity is summarized in the succeeding paragraphs.
Fuslieer Kinne escaped for the first time within 24 hours of capture, but was retaken a few days later while attempting to regain our own lines. Eventually he rejoined a large group of prisoners being marched north to prison camps, and despite the hardships of this march, which lasted a month, rapidly emerged as a man of outstanding leadership and very high morale. His conduct was a fine example to all his fellow prisoners.
In July, 1952, Fusileer Kinne, who was by now well known to his captors, was accused by them of being non-cooperative and was brutally interrogated about the other P.W. who had un-cooperative views. As a result of his refusal to inform on his comrades, and for striking back at a chinese officer who assaulted him,he was twice severely beaten up and tied up for periods of 12 and 24 hours, being made to stand on tip toe with a running noose round his neck which would throttle him if he attempted to relax in any way.
He escaped on 27th July but was recaptured two days later. He was again beaten up very severely, and placed in handcuffs which could be and frequently were tightened so as to restrict circulation, from which he was not released until October 1952, a period of 61 days.
He was accused of insincerity, a hostile attitude towards the chinese, "sabatoge" of compulsory political study, escape, and of being reactionary. From 156h to 20th August, he was confined in a very small box cell, where he was made to sit to attention all day, being periodicaly beaten, prodded with bayonets, kicked, and spat upon by the guards, and demied any washing facilities.
On 29th August, 1952 he was made to stand at attention for seven hours and when he complained, was beaten by the chinese guard commander with the butt of a submachine gun, which eventualy went off and killed the guard commander. For this, Fusileer Kinne ws beaten senseless whth belts and bayonets, stripped of his clothes, and thrown into a dark rat-infested hole until 19th September. He was frequently taken out and beaten, including once on 16the September with pieces of planking until he was unconscious.
On 16h October, Fusileer Kinne was tried by a chinese military court for escape and being a reactionary and hostile to the chinese, and was sentenced to twelve months solitary confinement. This was increased to eighteen months when he complained on his trial of denial of medical attention, including that for a severe double hernia which he had sustained in June 1953 while while training to escape.
On 5th December, 1952, he was transferrwed to a special penal company. His last award of solitary confinement was on 2nd June 1953, when he was sentenced for defying chinese orders and wearing and wearing a rosette in celebration of of Coronation day.
Hw was eventualy exchanged at Panmunjon on 10th August 1953. As late as 8th and 9th august, he was threatened with non-repatriation for demanding an interview with the International Red Cross representatives who were visiting prisoner of war camps.
Fusileer Kinne was during the course of his periods of solitary confinement kept in no less than seven different places of imprisonment, including a security police gaol, under condiutions of the most extreme degradation and increasing brutality. Every possible method both physical and mental was employed by his captors to break his spirit, a task which proved utterly beyond their powers. Latterly, he must been fully aware that every time he flaunted his captors and showed openly his detestation of themselves and their methods he was risking his life. He was in fact determined to show that he was prepared neither to be intimidated nor cowed by brutal treatment at the hands of a barbarbous enemy.
His powers of resistance and his determination to oppose and fight the enemy to the maximum were beyond praise. His example was an inspiration to all ranks who came in contact with him.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
One final note, owing to his condition, a chinese guard helped him off the truck. He DECKED the guard, stripped off the prison uniform the chinese issued him, and walked across the bridge stark naked.!
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
http://www.fenrir.com/free_stuff/lewis/061.htm
On the subject of aiming a machine gun, here's a link to a 1917 instruction manual for a Lewis Gun. Makes some interesting reading, I'm in the midst of downloading/saving the entire manual.
NS
On the subject of aiming a machine gun, here's a link to a 1917 instruction manual for a Lewis Gun. Makes some interesting reading, I'm in the midst of downloading/saving the entire manual.
NS
FWIW, the MG34 and MG42 manuals indicate that the barrel should be changed after every 250 rounds of sustained fire. That's 5 standard belts of ammo.
The MG34 and 42 have heavier barrels than most guns and were some of the earliest GPMG's to be air cooled. The barrels on these guns are MEATY. The weight is to help absorb the heat from 250 rounds of rapid fire.
If the situation so warranted (ie, the MG nest being so threatened that a barrel change could not be effected), the gun could continue to fire, but the berrel would likely get burnt out in the process and require replacement.
An MG34 or 42 crew carried 4 barrels individually fitted and serialized to the MG. Either 2 double carriers or 4 single carriers were distributed among the support crew to be carried into the fight.
A barrel change took between 6 and 12 seconds and a belt change was expected to be done in 5 seconds by a well trained and practised crew. Barrel changes usually took place on the lafette tripod, as most sustained fire took place from fixed positions. The bipod was most often used with mounted ammo drums (50 rounds) in the assault role as an LMG, and bursts were usually not sustained, in order to conserve ammo.
I only have two barrels for my MG34, so after 500 rounds sustained fire (yeah, right!), I theoretically would have to let my barrels cool.
After 250 rounds of sustained fire, a MG34 barrel gets so hot that you need a special heat retardent mitt to change out the barrel without scorching your hands.
Expected life for any barrel used for 250 round bursts of sustained fire was 5000 rounds. Barrels not used for sustained fire were expected to get to 10,000 rounds. There is still rifling at this point, but accuracy degrades sharply thereafter.
The MG34 and 42 have heavier barrels than most guns and were some of the earliest GPMG's to be air cooled. The barrels on these guns are MEATY. The weight is to help absorb the heat from 250 rounds of rapid fire.
If the situation so warranted (ie, the MG nest being so threatened that a barrel change could not be effected), the gun could continue to fire, but the berrel would likely get burnt out in the process and require replacement.
An MG34 or 42 crew carried 4 barrels individually fitted and serialized to the MG. Either 2 double carriers or 4 single carriers were distributed among the support crew to be carried into the fight.
A barrel change took between 6 and 12 seconds and a belt change was expected to be done in 5 seconds by a well trained and practised crew. Barrel changes usually took place on the lafette tripod, as most sustained fire took place from fixed positions. The bipod was most often used with mounted ammo drums (50 rounds) in the assault role as an LMG, and bursts were usually not sustained, in order to conserve ammo.
I only have two barrels for my MG34, so after 500 rounds sustained fire (yeah, right!), I theoretically would have to let my barrels cool.
After 250 rounds of sustained fire, a MG34 barrel gets so hot that you need a special heat retardent mitt to change out the barrel without scorching your hands.
Expected life for any barrel used for 250 round bursts of sustained fire was 5000 rounds. Barrels not used for sustained fire were expected to get to 10,000 rounds. There is still rifling at this point, but accuracy degrades sharply thereafter.
Scorching? More like melting skin and searing flesh.
I've seen some NASTY burns, and it never happens more than once to the same person...
Beg to differ. Some people are slow learners.
Sorry... 'SMART' people never burn themselves more than once.
I've just never seen someone dumb enough to do it twice.
Maybe things are different for MP's....
