AK 47 or AR 15

peckerwood said:
AK is made of Steel and Wood/Plastics.
AR is made of Aluminum, Steel and Plastics.

AK mags are made of steel
AR mags are made of anodized aluminum

AK cartridges have a 123 grain bullet and have a heavy steel casing
AR cartridges have a 55 grain bullet and have a lightwieght brass casing

AK bullets are moving slow(2300 fps) and have a greater bullet drop for engagement distances
AR bullets are moving fast(3200 fps) and have a minimal bullet drop for engagement distances
:D
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Then you might want to compare AK-74 to AR, rather then AK. At least the caliber and ballistics are similar.
 
I have never been in combat so I can't say about the pros and cons or how accurate those posted are. I'll leave that to experts like KevinB.

The bottom line is I can't own an AK so I own an AR. The AK could clean itself, shoot under 1 MOA and be $50 brand new......I still can't have one.:mad:
 
Okay -- well had to hit the gym first so sorry about the wait...

Iraq053.jpg


Iraq054.jpg


Okay so its a shorty Ak -- but you get the idea

Lefty use
Iraq051.jpg

Iraq052.jpg


Righty
Iraq049.jpg


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I'm guessing no one cares about a M4...

since the guns are all bombed up I was not rushing thru stuff - and its kinda a reasonable handrawn fascimilie of how they can be done
BigRed pointed out that I had my hand inverted from usual in cocking the AK (or pretending to ####) --I'm not sure if I run it that way underspeed or not.

One big problem with the AK is the corosive ammo -- if you dont clean it after shooting - or within a week it will literally rust shut and for ones without chrome bores pooch the barrel.

I find the AK unergonomic for me -- a lefty IMHO can run it way easier.
Accuracy is so so -- one of our guys has an Ak he can group 2" with @ 100m so obviously its good minute of man out to 300m+

I've never had issues with M4 unreliability (in a real gun -- not a parts frankenbuild) and I dont maintain them with a loving touch -- 1x a week for dust and rust -- same with my Glock.

Ak's can be loaded and actioned with the right hand never leaving the pistol grip -- most of people I know leave AK's chamber empty safety off -- not nearly as fast to get into action -- and the safety manipilation is one of the major drawback to the design

More to follow
 
Max Power said:
The bottom line is I can't own an AK so I own an AR. The AK could clean itself, shoot under 1 MOA and be $50 brand new......I still can't have one.:mad:
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i just want what i can't have...is that too much to ask?



an thanks KevinB for those of us who may never have the opportunity to see the differences for ourselves
 
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The Ak's M43 FMJ round is a terrible anti-personnel round -- it has a tendance to yaw around the axis - it does very little permanent damage other than its path. The M193 (55gr) M855 (62gr) or Mk262 (77gr) bullets will yaw and if the impact velocity is high enough fragment - violently in higher velocity impacts.

The majority of special units run the 77gr round now, it is more accurate, and has better terminal performance in target tissue.

For me its a hands down no brainer for running a M4 -- the only reason for the Ak is you can battlefield pick up ammo from the dead bad guys. I'm not going to bother carrying an Ak for that -- since I'll just steal one off a dead turd if I run out of Mk262...

I'm pretty fast switching mags with an Ak - since its the same concept as the FN C1A1 which was beaten in to me so many years ago -- and the majority of mag changes happen on the move -- the bolt hold open is the biggest issue -- since the click instead of bang issue sucks ass.

As many people far more skilled than I have said -- its the singer not the song, either will suit you well -- neither is perfect but thats life.

I think the Canadian gunowners major lovefest with the Ak is they are prohibited -- I sold the one I owned in Canada, and I've never been enamoured with them -- give me a day with a peasant and a M4 -- and he will be able to use it for a far better skill than the Ak.
 
Both work,
Both do the job,
Both have been around for a long time,
Both are still in wide spread use,

I have both,one of the things about the AK,well to me anyways[never having been in combat] is when your shooting it [Not anymore,shaking fist angerly towards the east]there seems to be a lot of parts bouncing around in there.
For the AR ,theres the "BOING" of the recoil buffer.

Whoa,cool pics KevinB,Have to ask ,whats the barrel length on that puppy,the AK???
 
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KevinB said:
Okay -- well had to hit the gym first so sorry about the wait...

Lefty use
Iraq051.jpg
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Wow! What is that thing in your hands? It does not look like any of original Russian modifications of AK. I have never seen such a short hand guard on an AK. And the pistol grip looks weird.. Perhaps that is why you have ergonomics problems.. What is it anyway? And what caliber. I certainly hope not 7.62..



Also looking at the safety, it is a full auto! :eek:
 
Big_Red said:
No it's just a chopped AK I had done. Chopped stock, gas piston, gas tube, and barrel. I think it's a Hungarian.
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I wondered about the hack job welding on the stock. I hope you shoot better than you weld. :D

:runaway:
 
Teapot said:
When I worked in Finland the boys I worked with were very happy with their Valmets and Sakos. They said at 300 meters they hit anything they eaimed at. The system is not to blame for shortcomings only the way it is built and the Finns can really build Kalashnikovs well.
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+2 on this, the Fins built a nice solid dependable AK variant...hard to improve on the AK design, but they did. :)
And there is no freaking way an AR would survive what the testing put their Valmets through...not even close.

Then again what civilian treats their rifles like that on a day to day basis anyway? :D

For civilians... Use what you have, enjoy it.
And for Military, as my father in law once said to me... Learn to enjoy what you are issued as you don't get an opinon on the matter.
 
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stokka said:
Wow! What is that thing in your hands? It does not look like any of original Russian modifications of AK. I have never seen such a short hand guard on an AK. And the pistol grip looks weird.. Perhaps that is why you have ergonomics problems.. What is it anyway? And what caliber. I certainly hope not 7.62..



Also looking at the safety, it is a full auto! :eek:
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Ok ignore the following if your post was a joke, if not read on...

It's a chopped AK. That means a guy cut it with a saw in several places and put it back together. It's not some Russian factory variant. The pistol grip is what came with it. This AK is as ergonomic as any Ak... If you look at the mag it's obviously 7.62. YES IT IS SELECT FIRE THE RIFLE IS IN f**kING IRAQ! There are not problems with this weapon, it does the job intended fine. It was built as a car gun and in two years it's never had a stoppage. It works, end of story.

Stay in your lane.
 
You notice the Recce Rifle and M4A1 have autosears...



Damnit, red -- I figured we could string him along and get him to call the cops
 
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KevinB said:
Damnit, red -- I figured we could string him along and get him to call the cops
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LOL :p

Kevin, you'd mentioned you thought the AK would be better for lefties. I'm curious, where does that AK throw its brass?
 
Ok, now looking at the photo one more time - it is 7.62 (the mag) and it looks very much like full auto (the safety).

Not sure why you would do what you have done with the gas system and the barrel - you might have your reasons. Please share if you are willing.

I would not recommend to compare this rifle with AR-15. It will not give you the feeling of a "standard" AK.

Also comparing AR and AK, I think that the big part of it the quality of metal. Meaning how all the parts behave when they are really hot or rapidly warming up/ cooling down. Russian made AK will be shooting even when the barrel will be literally glowing red-hot. All the parts in it are made so they expand and shrink with the same rate at any temperature. The material and part size is important to a proper heat exchange. That is why I am kind of not in favour of modifications, but it maybe just me..

Actually here is something interesting. I have not seen it myself, somebody who actually did it told the story, so perhaps here is another legend. He got in a bit of a gun fight and was shooting an RPK for so long, that after he ceased fire (his ride has arrived) and the gun cooled down, the bolt actually welded into the receiver.

So assuming (!) that RPK and AK parts are made out of the same steel - unless you absolutely have to, do not modify or buy aftermarket parts for it :)

Edited:

O, jeez. I am soo behind, while I am typing somebody posts all the answers :)
 
Big_Red said:
Ok ignore the following if your post was a joke, if not read on...

It's a chopped AK. That means a guy cut it with a saw in several places and put it back together. It's not some Russian factory variant. The pistol grip is what came with it. This AK is as ergonomic as any Ak... If you look at the mag it's obviously 7.62. YES IT IS SELECT FIRE THE RIFLE IS IN f**kING IRAQ! There are not problems with this weapon, it does the job intended fine. It was built as a car gun and in two years it's never had a stoppage. It works, end of story.

Stay in your lane.
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Wow, what was so "out of his lane" about his post?

This is not Get off the X ya know.:rolleyes:

Maybe this forum needs a place where you high speed contractor types can stroke each other without having to deal with us chairborne commandos.
 
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Give me a break (P.S. 99% of GotX are not active either).

It was a stupid comments about full auto. Red and I get to play with some cool toys and when you try to share your experience its a little odd when someone pipes up and makes a comment about an illegal weapon - or question the inteligence of a modification.

Never saw you pissy when I posted picks at CGS -- oh until I stopped...
 
Kevin, I noticed in one your pics you had a Sig shorty, how does that figure into the mix? If you could only carry 1 rifle in (insert current hot spot here), what you choose between the 3, and why?

I am just currious, as I have handled and shot all three types, but only the C7 while working.

PS. Not meant to hi jack, just adding to the conversation.
 
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