Alaskan bear defence handgun ... :)

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None of the ones mentioned in this thread. Period.


Now if you are serious about bear defence, get a .22lr derringer.


On a more serious note, I would not leave the house with anything less than .44mag.

You only have one life and in situations like Alaska, manageable caliber overkill is best.
 
For years I ATC carried a .357 magnum but when I started working in BC I upgraded to a .454 Casull.

Ahh........ finally a reponse from someone who has an ATC and some experience with the big, nasty stuff!

Boomer49 you might also PM "Camp Cook" here on CGN as I believe he also has a wilderness ATC. There is also the Alaska forum on 24hr Campfire. Phil Shoemaker (aka 458 WIN, also his licence plate number!) posts there from time to time. That's about as authoritative as you can get.

Addendum: I forgot to mention the other Boomer (presumably the original one on CGN), also an ATC holder, who has now posted below.

:) Stuart
 
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Bear Defense...

Suggestion: Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag loaded hot with heavy hard cast bullets. Check ot Buffalo Bore 340 grainers....makes .44 Mag a beast tamer. The Ruger will not break the bank, and will get the job done. As far as .45 and .357 go, I would stick to two legged attackers with big teeth and claws, as opposed to four. If you can afford it, a .454 Casuul, .460 Mag or .500 Mag would be more devastating as long as you can hit what you are aiming at.
 
Ok so here is my opinion, for an ATC I would go with a 460V or 500 S&W. But to avoid all that work and course. Get a cheap 8" dominion arms grizzly 12 gauge with a few hollow point slugs in it. That's better then the ATC. For all you advocating semi autos - they will never issue you an ATC for that. I have spoken to the only guy that clears people for that at the CFO personally. Purpose of the big bore revolver is if need be bury the muzzle of it into the beast while he's on you if your getting mauled. With semi autos if you do that after the first round the slide will not cycle in the next round as the muzzle is pressed against the bear. This means you are dead.
 
The first order of business relates to the definition of the defensive handgun. A hunting handgun is not a defensive handgun, although in certain circumstances it could be used in the defensive role. The hunting handgun has no limitation to size, length, bulk, weight, power, or sighting. The hunting handgun need not necessarily be more than a single shot and it has no limitation as to its sighting equipment. By contrast the defensive handgun must be small, light, and short enough that it will always be carried rather than left behind because its not worth the trouble. The defensive handgun must be robust and resilient to exposure to the elements over a long period of time. The gun must be capable of fast repeat shots, and it must be as close to 100% reliable as a mechanical devise can be made. The grip size must fit the shooter's hand so that he has optimal control over recoil, and the best chance to hit his target The sighting equipment cannot be fragile or delicate, yet it must provide a fast and easy to acquire sight picture.
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With respect to terminal performance, penetration is the primary concern. The bullet must be able to penetrate heavy hide, dense muscle, and thick bones. Expansion my or may not be a good thing. While it complicates a wound in soft tissue, if the large frontal area prevents penetration through a bone it is then a disadvantage. The purpose of shooting is to stop the forward progression of the animal, and if a CNS shot is not offered, the next best thing is to break the transmission, meaning a hip or shoulder. For this reason I prefer heavy for caliber bullets at a velocity of about 1200 fps. If the bullet is going much faster, it could be heavier, if its going much slower, its too heavy.

This level of performance also has an effect on recoil. It is very difficult to reacquire the target for a follow up shot if the muzzle is pointing at the moon and continues to rise. Bullet weights in excess of 350 grs will produce too much recoil at this velocity for a balance of power and control to be maintained, and bullet weights over 250 grs, while desirable from the aspect of terminal performance, result in a level of recoil that takes a recoil hardened shooter to control. Therefore I consider a hot loaded .45 Colt or a .454 to represent the maximum level of power that is prudent in a light defensive gun. I carry a .44 magnum loaded with 325 gr hard cast WFNs as my primary gun and a .357 loaded with 190 gr hard cast SWCs as my secondary.

As important as the choice of gun is, the choice of a holster is equally so. Your personal preference, body type, occupation, and the type of country you work in are all relevant to the choice of holster. For example, if your build is thick through the arms, shoulders and chest, a shoulder holster might position the gun so it is all but impossible to reach, and a cross draw holster musty be positioned well to the front for it to be accessible. The holster should have a retaining devise of some kind, be it a strap or thumb-snap. If you work in heavy cover, a holster that covers the trigger guard and hammer is desirable, and an open muzzle will keep debris from collecting in the holster.
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What level of proficiency should the pistol shooter have before he can expect to save his life with a handgun? This is tough to answer, as luck is as important as skill is to the outcome we desire. We don't want to be like Cactus Jack, expousing the virtues of the gun which killed the bear that killed him. But if we are in a dangerous bear encounter that can only be resolved by gun fire, luck isn't with us on that day, so you might as well be good with that gun on your hip. The range will be short and the action fast. If the bear is coming straight in and is focused on you, as is the case in a predatory attack, the head is relatively stationary, where it might swing from side to side, in a defensive approach.
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The head appears massive and wide compared to the brain pad which is only the width of his snout and is behind his eyes and ahead of his ears. In a high stress situation, this is a tough target at 5-10 yards, we don't want to start a fight with a bear at longer range if all we have is a handgun; this should be considered a last ditch effort. If the bear has acted aggressively towards you and cannot be driven off, and you have no way to leave the area, a 100 yard shot with a rifle to resolve the matter is better than a 2 am visit to your tent, but under no circumstances should a dangerous animal be fired upon without knowing you can kill it. For handgun proficiency, a 10 yard group that measures 3" wide by 6" high when fired quickly will do. Tight windage is more important than a group that strings out horizontally, because a shot that hits high should strike the spine. Do not expect a chest shot to stop a bear attack, it might, but the experience of many unfortunates suggests otherwise.
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Alaskan coastal grizzly that paid us a visit a few days ago at the Chilkoot River
 
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The only real use for a handgun for bear defence is to shoot yourself before being torn apart. At least you will die quickly.

If I was serious about bear defence, I wouldn't use anthing less then a 12 ga pump shotgun, filled to the brim with slugs.
 
The only real use for a handgun for bear defence is to shoot yourself before being torn apart. At least you will die quickly.

If I was serious about bear defence, I wouldn't use anthing less then a 12 ga pump shotgun, filled to the brim with slugs.

That's fine if you have the use of both hands to use the gun. If you are laden down with equipment, or in the midst of a task, that long gun might not be accessible, where as the handgun is always with you, and always available.
 
If you can get a S&W 460V, it's still a really big gun but manageable to hump around.

Best part is 454 Casul is a pussycat in the beastie!

You can also set-up to 460 of course but follow-up shots are going to require a lot more practice for quick follow-up shots.

Just my 0.02 :)
 
Alaska

This guy knows first hand...may have been posted on CGN before bit worth the refresh for this thread. Ruger .454 for Greg Brush (must have been a Boy Scout...Be Prepared) as he walked his dogs and was rushed by this bear that apparently was starving. Good for him, keeping his head and doing what needed to be done. A shame an animal like this has to suffer starvation. (such is nature's way). Myself, I'll have my 3" or 5" 629 (one, not both, how much stuff are you going to carry?), because that's what I have and practice with.
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http ://www.adn.com/2009/08/13/897940/twig-snap-alerts-dog-walker-to.html
 
I should add at this point that the bear you are most likely to have trouble with isn't so much the 3/4 ton male as it is a juvenile who has just been chased off by mom, has a chip on his shoulder, and is hungry because he isn't really good at providing for himself yet. That doesn't mean that you can take liberties with a big male or any other bear, only that your target might be closer to 200 pounds than it is to 1000. Train and equip yourself to deal with a big bear, but don't be surprised if you have trouble with a youngster. Though as fmb points out, a big bear that is sick, injured, and starving is bad news, he'll come, he'll come quietly without warning, and he'll come fast.
 
Agreed! We don't have grizzlies and we're too far inland for polar bears but we have lots and lots of black bears. The vast majority of "issues" I've had wth bears, whether hiking / camping, hunting or fishing have been with juvenile bears. I have only ever run into two problematic mature bears that did not have cubs around.

I've appiled several times now for wilderness ATC's but have always been refused as the reason I am going into the area is for recretional enjoyment and not an occupational requirement. The CFO has suggested many times now that I carry a long gun instead despite my explanation that long guns are not always parctical and can often be out of immediate reach around the campsite for one reason or another. A handgun however would certainly always be available.

My concern is increasing rapidly as my young boys are now of age to come on more and longer length recreational outings with me.
 
Agreed! We don't have grizzlies and we're too far inland for polar bears but we have lots and lots of black bears. The vast majority of "issues" I've had wth bears, whether hiking / camping, hunting or fishing have been with juvenile bears. I have only ever run into two problematic mature bears that did not have cubs around.

I've appiled several times now for wilderness ATC's but have always been refused as the reason I am going into the area is for recretional enjoyment and not an occupational requirement. The CFO has suggested many times now that I carry a long gun instead despite my explanation that long guns are not always parctical and can often be out of immediate reach around the campsite for one reason or another. A handgun however would certainly always be available.

My concern is increasing rapidly as my young boys are now of age to come on more and longer length recreational outings with me.
i can't blame them for denying your application, having a weapon within reach at all times does little to protect your children, and greatly increases the odds of you going on a rampage. It's much safer for everyone on the planet if your shotgun is 10feet away or requires both hands to operate. If you ask politely the bears and cats will wait until both your hands are free.
 
For ease of carry and superior performance the always reliable Glock 20 in 10mm is the way to go.
It's light, has enormous power in the 10mm cartridge and has a lot more shots available than a 6 shot revolver.

For general purpose wilderness defence the 10mm seems to be very popular, but probably not enough penetration for big bears, esp. since Glocks apparently don't like hard-cast bullets? In a SHTF situation you may not have enough time to take advantage of the extra rounds anyway. I can't speak from experience but I'd be inclined to go with the recommendations of those who actually work among these big beasts. Post the question as well on the Alasaka forum of 24 Hr campfire and see what the response is.
 
Reading through this thread I'm reminded of a series of still photos I saw many years ago; a grizzly was being released from one of those culvert live traps, whether it was part of a research study or the relocation of a nuisance bear, I can't recall.

The bear decided not to play by the rules, and when the gate opened it tried to climb up on top of the trap to get at the gentleman working the gate. The trap tipped, the man fell on the ground beside the bear, and he had to save himself with a .357 slug to the head ( the bear's) with the bear on top of him.

If any of you watch Wild TV you may have seen Fred Eichler's encounter with a brown bear sow... it charged across a shallow river while protecting it's cubs. The guide, in the bow of the boat, turned it by putting a shot into the water in front of the bear. The rifles were encased and buried under a half a ton of gear at the bottom of their raft. I can't recall the calibre of the revolver the guide used, but if he hadn't had it, the video might have been a lot more interesting.

Point is, in an emergency any gun is better than no gun. Living in Canada, I'm not allowed to defend myself with a handgun, but if the rules miraculously changed, I would carry one. I would not choose any of the auto-jammers. Not only do they tend to be underpowered, but if you have any sort of stoppage you'll need both hands to clear it, and you may not have both hands free. The .357 is better than nothing, but the serious choices start with .44 mag and go up from there. If I could afford it, I'd use a .Freedom Arms. 454 Casull.

There are a lot of sneering remarks to the effect that you'll only pi$$ the bear off, and you'd be better off using it on yourself. But the way I look at it, it's the cheapest life insurance you can get.

Btw, I'm not bearanoid, I'm not afraid of bears, and I"ve never felt threatened by one. But I never forget that a bear killed and partially ate 3 young boys in Algonquin park just a couple of hours from where I live.
 
Excellent Post Mauser; Algonquin Black Bears are IMHO in the category of some of the most dangerous. That's right, the 100lbs 2-3 year old that has been raiding coolers all summer long has absolutely no reservations about people anymore (as the black bear normally does) and has over the decades caused many fatalities of people in the park.

It wasn't that long ago in Algonquin, that a female geologist student was decapitated with one swipe of a bears paw when she knelt over to study an item she noticed on the ground. It was obvious that she didn't even see it coming and was totally oblivious of the bear.

I've been taking my kids to the park since they were 6, and I've been going for many years before then (back country)...am I bearanoid? No. Do I hang my food always? Yes. Have I at times wished that I had packed a shorty 12 ga? Absolutely!! However it's a weight ratio vs encounter possibility for me. The weight ratio wins out every time :(
 
My Alaskan girlfriend can't lend me one of hers when we're in the boondocks?

Yes she could. Just remember the troopers don't screw around when it comes to Alaska's laws.
As far as gun choices go? Coastal Alaskan brown bears a 454
Inland grizzly and black bears 44mag
Your not going to need high capacity in a bad bear situation because your not going to have the time to shoot a whole bunch. Trust me i know.:eek:
 
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