Alex Robinson needs a kick in the nuts
- Thread starter Wally
- Start date
Look I like Wolverine and like shopping there, but you have to realize they are business. There is a demand for whatever reason for Robarms guns, this makes good business sense from Wolverine to sell them.
I think the XCR is a poorly designed hobby gun that has a tendency to have parts fall off it because the manufacturer thinks adhesives are an actual longterm solution. The fact that you need loctite on various parts speaks alot about their design and manufacturing process.
Hey if you want to buy an XCR have fun, its your money, do what you want. Alot of us dont care much for the product because they seem to have this odd habit of using thier customers as their design team to evaluate their products in the field and fix what fails based on customer feedback. To me this backward thought, indicates a company that lacks talent and know how by releasing faulty products in the field and coming up with numerous fixes after they have been released as opposed to designing it right the first time. They have done this on several guns as well and not just the XCR.
XCR is the biggest waste of money I can think of as far as Black guns go.If you want to baby your gun and run a few rounds at a time I bet it will last a lifetime. If you want to run it hard there are much better and cheaper options.
Hey, it's been a profitable strategy for Microsoft. I have their latest deproved* operating system and I can barely figure out how to do anything with it. Oh well, it's still WAY better than Windows 3.0 -- I couldn't run that for more than five minutes without crashing.
*deproved -- "improved" only in the minds of its creators
You had me for a moment there -- the Sheldon Cooper in me started breathing heavily.
I was going to get the XCR as a .223 plinker project gun lately, but the reviews completely turned me off. It seems like they're A LOT cheaper to buy in the States (under $1500) and the Yanks still don't want to buy them. People who do are usually stuck with them for a long time, not being able to resell this gun even at a considerable loss at gun shows or gun auctions.
The only plus in Canada is the gun's status... because the XCR is one of those rare black guns chambered in .223 and using AR mags while still being non-restricted and therefore having less bullsh*t red tape tied to it, and that's about everything it has going for it.
Too bad the XCR has such a poor reliability record, as it certainly has the looks to impress. Robinson could also consider giving us a fair price on them, at least the same as they sell it for in the US (our Canadian dollar is, after all, higher than the US dollar... so WTF?). Don't you just hate it when a company's trying to screw you over with unfair pricing on a substandard product? I certainly do.
So, after some consideration (which didn't require much time, given all the variables), I ended up going for a non-restricted CSA Vz-58 in .223 instead. It cost less than half the price of the XCR and I'm very happy with it so far. Much cheaper, built like an Eastern Block tank and lots of fairly inexpensive and cool mods too if you want that "black gun" evil look! (M4 stocks, rails, forward grips, etc). Zahal(dot)org is your friend for inexpensive Vz-58 mods, btw.
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The only plus in Canada is the gun's status... because the XCR is one of those rare black guns chambered in .223 and using AR mags while still being non-restricted and therefore having less bullsh*t red tape tied to it, and that's about everything it has going for it.
Too bad the XCR has such a poor reliability record, as it certainly has the looks to impress. Robinson could also consider giving us a fair price on them, at least the same as they sell it for in the US (our Canadian dollar is, after all, higher than the US dollar... so WTF?). Don't you just hate it when a company's trying to screw you over with unfair pricing on a substandard product? I certainly do.
So, after some consideration (which didn't require much time, given all the variables), I ended up going for a non-restricted CSA Vz-58 in .223 instead. It cost less than half the price of the XCR and I'm very happy with it so far. Much cheaper, built like an Eastern Block tank and lots of fairly inexpensive and cool mods too if you want that "black gun" evil look! (M4 stocks, rails, forward grips, etc). Zahal(dot)org is your friend for inexpensive Vz-58 mods, btw.
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Hey if you want an inexpensive plinker gun by all means go with a CZ 858 - I did but in 7.62x39mm to make it even more cheaper to shoot. I've modded it up with NEA, Magpul and NEIT parts. It gets the job done if you want to punch holes in paper or do a tactical match. You can even by Hornady ammo and hunt with it or roll your own.
If you want a strictly range gun that's relatively inexpensive, accurate and infinitely mod-able, get an AR. But it will only be a range gun unless things change. I doubt any Conservative or even mildly pro gun party would step into that one.
The reason why the XCR doesn't sell well in the USA - AR's are cheap, look like M4s and are not restricted. The 'fall apart' issues when shooting - well go read the other XCR threads and see what owners have said. There are operators that run their XCRs hard. Find an independent forum in the USA and see what shooters say about the XCR. And please don't quote posts about early production runs - the M16 was a piece of crap when first issued in Vietnam. Grunts were dying in firefights because they jammed.
Yes its good business sense for John at Wolverine to sell the XCR in Canada just like its good business sense for Robarms to manufacture the XCR with a 18.6" barrel so its non restricted in Canada. And to release it in calibers for plinking to hunting. I just don't get why some people want to dump on someone who gives Canadians a choice. If you don't like his product don't buy it.
If you want a strictly range gun that's relatively inexpensive, accurate and infinitely mod-able, get an AR. But it will only be a range gun unless things change. I doubt any Conservative or even mildly pro gun party would step into that one.
The reason why the XCR doesn't sell well in the USA - AR's are cheap, look like M4s and are not restricted. The 'fall apart' issues when shooting - well go read the other XCR threads and see what owners have said. There are operators that run their XCRs hard. Find an independent forum in the USA and see what shooters say about the XCR. And please don't quote posts about early production runs - the M16 was a piece of crap when first issued in Vietnam. Grunts were dying in firefights because they jammed.
Yes its good business sense for John at Wolverine to sell the XCR in Canada just like its good business sense for Robarms to manufacture the XCR with a 18.6" barrel so its non restricted in Canada. And to release it in calibers for plinking to hunting. I just don't get why some people want to dump on someone who gives Canadians a choice. If you don't like his product don't buy it.
It's because the gun its self, now that the bugs are worked out is a reasonable platform, but you can't get ass kissing points by admitting that an aserbic owner of a small firearms company has a "reasonable" product. Especially when there are so many more so called ###y platforms out there. look at a scope thread, or web site, it's Nightforce, U.S. optics etc. or nothing, same as pistols, my wife's Taurus 24/7 9mm shoots circles round my HK, yet they're junk in lots of peoples minds, my taurus .45 is the same, junk? Idon't think so. Frd, Chevy, Dodge, I've owned all three and to be honest, there isn't much difference. If you don't like XCRs and want a boutique AR fill your boots, I don't give a ####.
Yeah, some people buy their guns for the LCF. Other people makes themselves feel big by putting others down.
I still want one of these....
The only way you will get one of these is to find a used one.
The M96 Expeditionary Rifle is no longer in production (hasn't been produced for at least a couple of years.......).
I had an M96 but ended up selling it off.........Would love to find another one........
Check your facts, the design was not at fault, improper powder used in the issued ammunition was, but who really cares about the details right?
Oh, and I have yet to see a firearm produce a smooth sticky substance(often sweet to the taste) known as jam. I've seen many firearms experience a failure or stoppage but never jam.
Aside from the above, you're right. AR's are cheap in the US and they live in a moderately free country where such rifles are acceptable for bush work. That aside, the Robarm line isn't a hot seller, kind of like KelTec rifles aren't a hot seller. They're mediocre at best. The previous wonder gun from Robarm the M96 has all but disappeared. Such a great design, poor stamped steel construction and about $500 more than a stock 20" AR(In the US). Not to mention the two safety recalls for the bolt and trigger mechs. I don't see many at the range, in fact I've only ever seen one at a competition and it broke half way through the day. Odd how such a stellar design is no longer available?
TDC
I am a bit tired of the XCR bashing myself. If you do not like it- fine. There is no need to get into epic posting to ridicule it and personally I am not amused at all. This pro and against fanboydom is getting a bit excessive.
I don't know what some of you are talking about - I owned the second M96 (bartok5 owned the first one) imported into Canada for commerical sale back in 1999(?!). Despite it was wielded by a one-man shop, Robarms did a very good job with their M96 stainless steel stamped receiver. I missed the M96 - it was a very interesting retro rifle and I really want that Stone 63 LMG for nostalgia. However, it is a niche market and for business reason XCR is the right direction.
I don't know what some of you are talking about - I owned the second M96 (bartok5 owned the first one) imported into Canada for commerical sale back in 1999(?!). Despite it was wielded by a one-man shop, Robarms did a very good job with their M96 stainless steel stamped receiver. I missed the M96 - it was a very interesting retro rifle and I really want that Stone 63 LMG for nostalgia. However, it is a niche market and for business reason XCR is the right direction.
Hoorah. It is rather sickening isn't it? That's all I have ever been saying.
LMT MWS is the only modern battle proven 308 that does not cost an arm and a leg. KAC is just way too expensive.
I would like to put the Keltech RFB on the list. As much as I like its compactness and concept, its reliability is not "wpn grade". Accuracy is not much to write home about. Fun little 7.62 though.
Or you can get a HK MR308.......meet the price point half way between LMT MWS and KAC.
IMHO the XCR-M could be an interesting proposition if it is more reliable than the RFB and cheaper than the LMT MWS. However, making a workable 762 battle rifle is no small fest. It took LMT and KAC more than a decade to finally produce a mature reliable system ( the current Armalite AR10 was designed by LMT back in the 90's ).
However, I suspect Robarms will want to push this out ASAP for the CDN market. I think we are a sizable chunk of market for them.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well that's not even the whole story. They were initially isssuued without cleaning equipment, and troops were instructed by the powers that be that the rifle didn't need to be cleaned at all anyway. The combined negatives resulted in a les than desired end-state.
Ammo was only part of the problem...
blake
The problem still continues today, how many still get told to run their M4 unlubricated because "oil attracks sand"? A whole lot, add to that the white glove cleaning nonsense and you got yourself a recipe for disaster.
The AR needs one thing, lubrication. That's it.
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