Algonquin land claim details released

Status
Not open for further replies.
Interesting. Will they set the amount for the lease? And what happens to property taxes - who sets the mill rate and who gets the money?

Basically what I was told (this is not set in stone, could change/may not happen etc) You pay the lease right now to the province of Ontario, instead of paying Ontario the money will go to the Algonquins. Apparently you have to have a meeting with them in the future (this is nowhere near being done with, from what I was told on the phone anywhere from 5-10 years) At this meeting there will be a representitive of Ontario, an Algonquin and yourself and you sit down and discuss the lease and where you hunt on a map. They then have to do a survey of your camp at which time the lease rate will be decided. From what the woman told me on the phone it will basically stay the same. (Im not saying it will/wont, I will wait and see) Property taxes werent discussed, actually completely forgot about them lol. They will definately be mentioned on my next phone call!

Again none of that is set in stone, just what I was told over the phone. I still have to look into this further and get more info just havnt had the time yet.
 
I gotta admit, I'm pretty apprehensive about wading into these waters, but I - like many other ordinary citizens I know - have a lot of questions and there is a great deal of misinformation out there. I don't pretend to know all the minutia of the situation on the ground, or the complete details of all the treaties. The picture painted by some media outlets portrays the situation like most natives are living in squalor because the powerful corporate and federal tyrants are screwing them every chance they get. Other media outlets portray the situation as more of an internal corruption problem, and a dependency issue.

Really something that everyone should consider is that there are really 4 parties concerned in this: The native leaders, the common natives, the government of Canada, and the common Canadian citizens. To me, there seems to be contradicting opinions about what the problem is, and this is coming from the mouths of natives across Canada. For example: is there, or is there not an issue with accountability among native leaders? They receive a great deal of funding, and the chief lives in a sprawling, lavish house with many cars, yet her people live in moldy decrepit homes. I hear that many natives are angry about this, but I see just as many on the news defending Theresa Spence and her spending habits on the grounds of "privacy". I don't get it.

On the flip side, I understand that treaties were signed in good faith. If those treaties are not being honoured, that should be dealt with. I'm not saying I agree with the terms of the treaties per se, but we (our ancestors) signed them for better or for worse. That's our burden to bear. To be honest, I couldn't tell you the finer details of any of these treaties, nor could most people I talk to. All we know is that natives are entitled to:

- education grants
- reserved land
- funding
- tax exemption
- hunting and fishing rights

That's about the size of it (meaning my incomplete understanding of the treaties). Yes, I've heard various dollar figures thrown around, but I don't know how accurate that information is. In the interest of getting to the heart of the matter, would one of the native members involved in this conversation please identify for me a comprehensive list of talking points that outlines:

1 - what the government is bound by treaty to do
2 - what in those treaties has not been honoured
3 - what the current Idle protests hope to change (factual, not copy/pasted from Wikipedia, it is inaccurate)

To me, the Idle No More protests seem disjointed and lacking in a common theme. Going back to the Theresa Spence example, I saw some natives from Attawapiskat that were interviewed had complaints that she was living the good life and doling out the federal money how she saw fit while they lived under poor conditions. They were demanding transparency, yet the idea that 3rd party accounting of the native funds is somehow intrusive and not of "white father's" business runs counter to solving the issue of corruption among the tribal leaders. So you want to know where the money is going and ensure that it is being distributed fairly, yet according to Chief Spence, who makes more than Canada's Prime Minister, we should mind our own business? What do the common everyday natives think of this?

Of course there is frustration among non aboriginal Canadians. What we see on the news is contradictory and defies explanation. And that is where the majority of people go to form opinion - the news. I am just as guilty: I could do some research and find out all I need to know about the treaties, then research where the federal government has fallen short. But I will probably not do that as it will take to long and I have a life to live. So, you are here and reading this, let's hear it from the horse's mouth. I am open to reasonable discussion, as are most people I know. No one likes to see anyone get screwed, but what most people have learned from the media is that natives have vast funds thrown at them and enjoy privileges and opportunities the average Canadian doesn't, so please inform us what the situation is here and now, and what you think it would take to resolve it.
 
Basically what I was told (this is not set in stone, could change/may not happen etc) You pay the lease right now to the province of Ontario, instead of paying Ontario the money will go to the Algonquins. Apparently you have to have a meeting with them in the future (this is nowhere near being done with, from what I was told on the phone anywhere from 5-10 years) At this meeting there will be a representitive of Ontario, an Algonquin and yourself and you sit down and discuss the lease and where you hunt on a map. They then have to do a survey of your camp at which time the lease rate will be decided. From what the woman told me on the phone it will basically stay the same. (Im not saying it will/wont, I will wait and see) Property taxes werent discussed, actually completely forgot about them lol. They will definately be mentioned on my next phone call!

Again none of that is set in stone, just what I was told over the phone. I still have to look into this further and get more info just havnt had the time yet.
I wonder who will issue you tags to hunt on native land? Theoretically.....

Oh man.....I just can't believe how far this issue is off the radar here in Ontario. Maybe once a lot of cottagers find out what is going on, there will be a little more noise.
 
It's sad to see that the attitude of the "takers" has not changed since they first stepped foot on this land.
It's 2013 and the anti aboriginal attitudes still prevail. THAT is what got us here, to this day and I don't think any aboriginal folks in Canada wanted to be forced into the life they have found themselves living for the past few hundred years.

All you see is.... Oh no... I'm losing my hunt camp.
Poor fellow, now you know how our ancestors felt. The "shoe" is now on the other foot eh?

I think it is clear why we are here .... gimme gimme gimme

You don't even know how your ancestors felt. You don't even know what the shoe looked like. All you know is gimme gimme gimme.

J
 
Typical....You cry and :bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug: that you're losing lands used for hunting but in turn belittle and call down the Natives for fighting for lands that were originally their's to begin with and were never surrendered! If you think you have entitlement than you are sadly mistaken! If by your own reasoning the Natives do not have entitlement to the lands, than by this same reasoning neither do you! Man...racism and ignorance still runs strong!
Some of you seriously need a history lesson! What's good for the goose is good for the gander!
 
Love it. My family came here in 1647, yet I am a white settler and need to be punished. Racism through and through. First nations have no deeper connection to this land than me. Recent evidence suggests that stone age Europeans were here before Canadian aboriginals anyway.

Shhh. That kind of talk can get the beer money taken away.

J
 
Typical....You cry and :bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug: that you're losing lands used for hunting but in turn belittle and call down the Natives for fighting for lands that were originally their's to begin with and were never surrendered! If you think you have entitlement than you are sadly mistaken! If by your own reasoning the Natives do not have entitlement to the lands, than by this same reasoning neither do you! Man...racism and ignorance still runs strong!
Some of you seriously need a history lesson! What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

Theirs? Says who?

Another one that doesn't know squat about ancestors, ganders or what anyone went through back then. But you know the gimme gimme gimme.

What would you say if "whitey" put up road blocks and burned things because they felt the land is now rightfully theirs?

J
 
Well I was born here. My parents were born here. Most of my grandparents were born here. Canada is my NATIVE home and land.
Where's my land claim?.....Oh I forgot, I'm white.
The Algonquin crownland is my only hunting land. Without it I can't hunt. All other crownland in the area has a no hunting ban placed on it due to the high numbers of non huntig users it sees.
I agree that the natives should be treated fairly however......
TEAR UP ALL TREATIES. Then it will be fair.
They can use it,we can use it every one wins because we are all equal.....just like in the charter of rights.
 
Last edited:
Lmao...You certainly proved my point...you ignorant racist hick! There are more alcoholic crack head white people than there are of Native people! Do research on how many white welfare recipients there are out there....you wanna take about handouts and draining the system! It's clear that it's you that has no clue what you are talking about! Suck it up and find new hunting grounds you cry baby :bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug:!!
 
Tear up the treaties...those are legal binding agreements signed by your government!! So because your grandparents were born here you should have entitlement to the land?? What about the generations of Natives that were born here, even before your grandparents and their grandparents?? Where's their entitlement?? Where's your treaty??
 
Lmao...You certainly proved my point...you ignorant racist hick! There are more alcoholic crack head white people than there are of Native people! Do research on how many white welfare recipients there are out there....you wanna take about handouts and draining the system! It's clear that it's you that has no clue what you are talking about! Suck it up and find new hunting grounds you cry baby :bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug:!!

Hey now. Its against CGN rules to call names.
Perhaps you were not the first, but don't propagate it or get led into a trap either.

Let's be civil.

That being said....yes there a lot of useless people in the world.....OF ALL RACES.
 
Tear up the treaties...those are legal binding agreements signed by your government!! So because your grandparents were born here you should have entitlement to the land?? What about the generations of Natives that were born here, even before your grandparents and their grandparents?? Where's their entitlement?? Where's your treaty??

Hey, can you just read my last post on the previous page and educate me? I'm not interested in all the chest thumping and insult hurling, I just want to better understand the nature of the problem in a broader sense, not just pertaining to the issue of hunting land being handed over to Algonquins.
 
Tear up the treaties...those are legal binding agreements signed by your government!! So because your grandparents were born here you should have entitlement to the land?? What about the generations of Natives that were born here, even before your grandparents and their grandparents?? Where's their entitlement?? Where's your treaty??

Exactly. NO ONE should have any more rights than anyone else.
If I can't wear a hat in a court room than cou can't wear a head dress, the next guy can't wear a turbin, the next can't wear a minorrah,and so on.

And to be totally correct your people came from RUSSIA not Canada.
 
I gotta admit, I'm pretty apprehensive about wading into these waters, but I - like many other ordinary citizens I know - have a lot of questions and there is a great deal of misinformation out there. I don't pretend to know all the minutia of the situation on the ground, or the complete details of all the treaties. The picture painted by some media outlets portrays the situation like most natives are living in squalor because the powerful corporate and federal tyrants are screwing them every chance they get. Other media outlets portray the situation as more of an internal corruption problem, and a dependency issue.

Really something that everyone should consider is that there are really 4 parties concerned in this: The native leaders, the common natives, the government of Canada, and the common Canadian citizens. To me, there seems to be contradicting opinions about what the problem is, and this is coming from the mouths of natives across Canada. For example: is there, or is there not an issue with accountability among native leaders? They receive a great deal of funding, and the chief lives in a sprawling, lavish house with many cars, yet her people live in moldy decrepit homes. I hear that many natives are angry about this, but I see just as many on the news defending Theresa Spence and her spending habits on the grounds of "privacy". I don't get it.

On the flip side, I understand that treaties were signed in good faith. If those treaties are not being honoured, that should be dealt with. I'm not saying I agree with the terms of the treaties per se, but we (our ancestors) signed them for better or for worse. That's our burden to bear. To be honest, I couldn't tell you the finer details of any of these treaties, nor could most people I talk to. All we know is that natives are entitled to:

- education grants
- reserved land
- funding
- tax exemption
- hunting and fishing rights

That's about the size of it (meaning my incomplete understanding of the treaties). Yes, I've heard various dollar figures thrown around, but I don't know how accurate that information is. In the interest of getting to the heart of the matter, would one of the native members involved in this conversation please identify for me a comprehensive list of talking points that outlines:

1 - what the government is bound by treaty to do
2 - what in those treaties has not been honoured
3 - what the current Idle protests hope to change (factual, not copy/pasted from Wikipedia, it is inaccurate)

To me, the Idle No More protests seem disjointed and lacking in a common theme. Going back to the Theresa Spence example, I saw some natives from Attawapiskat that were interviewed had complaints that she was living the good life and doling out the federal money how she saw fit while they lived under poor conditions. They were demanding transparency, yet the idea that 3rd party accounting of the native funds is somehow intrusive and not of "white father's" business runs counter to solving the issue of corruption among the tribal leaders. So you want to know where the money is going and ensure that it is being distributed fairly, yet according to Chief Spence, who makes more than Canada's Prime Minister, we should mind our own business? What do the common everyday natives think of this?

Of course there is frustration among non aboriginal Canadians. What we see on the news is contradictory and defies explanation. And that is where the majority of people go to form opinion - the news. I am just as guilty: I could do some research and find out all I need to know about the treaties, then research where the federal government has fallen short. But I will probably not do that as it will take to long and I have a life to live. So, you are here and reading this, let's hear it from the horse's mouth. I am open to reasonable discussion, as are most people I know. No one likes to see anyone get screwed, but what most people have learned from the media is that natives have vast funds thrown at them and enjoy privileges and opportunities the average Canadian doesn't, so please inform us what the situation is here and now, and what you think it would take to resolve it.


Thoughtful words clearing up some misconceptions.





Why I Support Idle No More

I am no longer a journalist, and I do not seek a bully pulpit on any topic, but tonight I want to explain to my family and friends why I give my unqualified support to the Idle No More movement as a Canadian citizen.

I am becoming more and more concerned about the harsh backlash among non-aboriginal Canadians against this peaceful protest movement. I’m not talking exclusively about virulent racial bigotry and hate speech, although it exists in dark places, but more about the willful denial of reality, the blindness to injustice, among many decent people.

These are the people I address tonight. I respect their right to a different opinion, but I hope they will hear me out.

Four Saskatchewan women—Nina Wilson, Sylvia McAdam, Sheelah McLean and Jessica Gordon—and Chief Theresa Spence of Attawapiskat First Nation in northern Ontario found the courage to say that a change is going to come. Thousands of indigenous people across Canada are demonstrating in peaceful ways to tell the country that they will wait no longer for that change. When I see round dances in shopping malls, peaceful road blockades, or a chief on a hunger strike, I see an opportunity to learn more about the deep frustration of my neighbours. I see no threat at all.

The protesters are asking for the country I want for myself, and for my family.

Millions of Canadians do respect First Nations, Metis and Inuit legal rights because these rights are guaranteed in our modern Constitution, frequently upheld by our highest courts, entrenched in our historic treaties, and valued in our intermingled family connections, our friendships, our minds and our hearts.

Many of us badly want the Canadian government to respect Indigenous land, resources, cultural ways, and most of all their right to self-determination.

I feel hopeful—wildly hopeful—that a core demand of the Idle No More movement for stronger protection of our shared natural environment will spread to Canadians of all racial backgrounds and political allegiances. I also hope that the Harper government will think twice in future before it passes omnibus legislation with minimal parliamentary debate or national consultation on the contents.

If the Idle No More movement has allies, and it does, we need to be more outspoken. Our silence in 2013 will be interpreted as complicity, and polite agreement, with everything that is wrong with the relationship between Canada and the founding peoples. Firm support for Idle No More could push the whole nation forward in a new and more positive direction.

We need to stand beside indigenous peoples when they confront an obtuse federal government that consistently undermines their success while it scolds them about local governance. In our homes and communities, we need to challenge the mockery, the simplistic assumptions, the casual and devastating bigotry that diminish Canada and make it a smaller, narrower place than it deserves to be.

As some of you know, I have worked for most of my adult life as a reporter, writer and oral history transcriber with enduring connections to many First Nations and Metis people and their communities in different parts of Canada, primarily in the West. That doesn’t make me an expert in anything, but I have had a rare opportunity to learn from the true experts – the people themselves, their life experiences, their values, their hopes. I have witnessed with my own eyes hardships and injustices that took my breath away, not only in Attawapiskat in 2010, but in almost every province and territory over three decades.

To those comfortable Canadians who complain that their hard-earned tax dollars disappear down a huge funnel to places like Attawapiskat, I say: Visit the place yourself, or any other isolated, northern Aboriginal community, and you might notice that most inhabitants, primarily children and old people, endure substandard public services beyond the imagination of southern, urban Canadians.

They can’t count on clean drinking water, warm housing, decent elementary schools, safe roads, good fire protection or sewage systems—all services that white Canadians in neighbouring towns and cities take for granted. Other Canadians can rely on fairly capable local and provincial governments while First Nations have to contend with the inept budgeting practices of the federal Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, not to mention the restrictive nature of our hideous national antique, the Indian Act. Read it some time. It will change your view of your country.

To those Canadians who allege that all chiefs and band councils are robber barons who “make more than the prime minister,” and run a vast northern kleptocracy, I say: I have never heard an Idle No More activist or an Aboriginal person in any community defend overpayment of band officials, padding of expense accounts, or local corruption. Just as I have never heard any Canadian, anywhere, justify the overpayment of local, provincial or federal elected and public employees, although this also happens with depressing regularity.

Overpayment happens because we allow it to happen. That can change, too. I would like to hear Canadians ask why the president of the University of Alberta, Indira Samarasekera, received $627,000 in the 2007-2008 fiscal year, which includes house and car allowances, performance bonuses and deferred compensation. Her salary had increased 6 per cent compared to the year before.

Folks, she earned more that Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S. president Barack Obama that year while Alberta students contended with steady tuition increases. She earned more than any First Nation chief I’ve ever heard of. Yet do we hear waves of public indignation about the continuing high salaries of university and college presidents across Canada? Even a murmur? We do not.

We swallow similar bad news about other elected and public officials who receive sky-high salaries, benefits, and sometimes, huge severance payments after dismissal for poor performance. That’s our tax money, too. We could at least apply our indignation evenly across the country, and we might question the national preoccupation with compensation to chiefs, and how and why that obsession came to be.

Long ago, when I was reporting for the Edmonton Journal in 1980 or 1981, I received a brown envelope from a Department of Indian Affairs finance officer containing documents on the salary and benefits of an outspoken Cree leader Harold Cardinal who was working at the time to assist the northern Dene Tha’ with poor conditions on their reserve. I was in my early twenties at the time, and inexperienced, and yes, I supplied the news story that brought a good man’s hard work into disrepute, fortunately temporarily. I was a little pawn on a chessboard, pushed forward, to do the government’s bidding. Shut him up. Shut it down.

I learned a hard lesson from that experience. I began to watch the situation more carefully. In the following three decades I noticed that each time First Nations and Metis leaders, or activists in the community, demanded their legal rights or a fair share of Canada’s abundant resources, similar official brown envelopes would whiz in the direction of good, bad or indifferent reporters and media commentators. These journalists would dutifully report the news of overpayments--as they should, it is indefensible--but without any context or understanding of how they were being used to silence, ignore and marginalize Aboriginal people in great need.

Does the federal government release similar figures to the media about the plump expense accounts of its own senior deputy ministers? No, it does not. The Harper government encourages significant overpayments to a favoured few, on the one hand, and then spins this information to discredit the legitimate claims of an entire group of people. This is not good governance. This is dysfunctional manipulation.

I don’t blame many southern Canadians for their singular focus on chiefs’ salaries—that’s just about all they’ve heard from the shills in the conservative media for two decades—but I don’t think people understand that federal transfers to First Nations are often significantly lower than provincial transfers to non-aboriginal communities for the same services. The Auditor General and Parliamentary Budget Officer have confirmed this fact again and again, and conscientious people in provincial and local governments and in the media have complained about it.

Try to calculate how much public money your town or city receives for every school and hospital, for all salaries of local public employees, for road and bridge construction, for police and fire departments, for sewer lines, garbage disposal, recycling, public transit and so on. That amounts to many millions of dollars a year, too, even for small communities. Canadians interpret these financial transfers as a right of citizenship, the cost of a civil society.

More than one million people in Canada describe themselves as Aboriginal, and more than 700,000 have First Nations status. The Government of Canada will spent about $8 billion this year for the budget of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, including all transfers to more than 600 communities. About twenty per cent of the total goes to departmental administration expenses, but look at the $8 billion. That’s the same amount that New Brunswick will spend this year on public services for its 751,000 people.

To those Canadians who say, “But I pay taxes, and they don’t, so I have earned these services, and they haven’t,” I say in reply: A large majority of First Nations people and all Metis people, now live off-reserve, work for a living, and do pay taxes. It is the Canadian way to provide public services for all citizens, even those without paid employment, such as the elderly, parents caring for children at home, people with disabilities, and people who earn too little in their jobs to pay significant taxes. Some people on reserves, and in neighbouring non-aboriginal communities too, fall into these categories. Why should we resent them? Their gifts to us are beyond the measure of money.

More important, this country is affluent and comfortable by international standards because of the rich natural resources it extracts from its northern and western regions, the traditional territory of many First Nations and Metis people. They have paid and paid the rest of Canada—in lost revenue, over generations—for the miserable level of public services they have received through much of the last century. They have received no fair share of the benefits of a rich nation, and it is time they did.

To the Canadians who say, “But Idle No More leaders should be more specific, they should define their terms, I don’t know what they want,” I say: Where have you been hiding throughout your lifetime? If you don’t know what they want, you haven’t been listening.

The parents and grandparents of Idle No More activists lined up at the microphones at the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Inquiry after 1974, patiently explaining to the country why their land and sovereignty needed to be respected. Decade after decade, others spoke to parliamentary committee hearings, First Ministers conferences, and every MP and reporter who would listen to them.

Year after year, they testified at hearings of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and at hearings of the United Nations human rights bodies. In case after case, they took the federal government to the Supreme Court of Canada to press for legitimate recognition of their land claims and treaty and Aboriginal rights. They negotiated the Kelowna Accord with the former prime minister, and then saw the deal collapse.

Their frustrations found expression at Oka and Burnt Church and Ipperwash, Ont., in the protest marches through the streets of Edmonton and Winnipeg, in the railway blockades in B.C. They celebrated many victories and land claims settlements along the way, and found allies, and achieved significant improvements on their own initiative.

If you don’t know about this yet, it is not too late to learn. Rather than demand that other people define their terms immediately in language you are ready to accept, just listen, and remember what you have heard.

It shouldn’t be necessary to say that diverse Aboriginal communities have different definitions of sovereignty, and different interpretations of their relationship with the Canadian state. People are different. Communities are different. No single answer is the total or final answer on any public issue.

The very least Canadians can do is pay attention with some level of respect and gratitude for a largely peaceful protest movement. Other countries would envy us for Idle No More, and its non-violent core values. Their patience is a great gift to this country.

When the percentage of Aboriginal people in schools, colleges, universities, hospitals and jails matches their percentage of the Canadian population, some equality will have been achieved. Equality does not exist now.

I think this is a defining moment in Canadian history, a time when each citizen is asked to make a choice. Where do you stand? Where will your children and grandchildren want you to stand? I have made my decision. I leave your decision to you.

Thank you for listening.



To learn more about. . .

The Idle No More movement:

Website: www.idlenomore.ca
On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Idlenomore.official/?ref=ts&fref=ts
On Twitter #IdleNoMore

Nine questions about Idle No More, CBC report, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/01/04/f-idlenomore-faq.html

Duncan McCue CBC commentary: The cultural importance of Idle No More
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/01/08/f-vp-mccue-idle-no-more.html

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idle_No_More

Bill C-45, the fine print of the Omnibus Bill
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/10/19/pol-list-2nd-omnibus-bill.html

About Attawapiskat:

http://www.nfb.ca/film/people_of_kattawapiskak_river/ An NFB documentary by award-winning Alanis Obamsawin


“Still waiting in Attawapiskat,” Canadian Geographic magazine, Linda Goyette with photography by Liam Sharp

Attawapiskat finances:
The journalism of Chelsea Vowel
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/chelsea-vowel/attawapiskat-emergency_b_1127066.html
and
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/chelsea-vowel/attawapiskat_b_1734332.html


The issues at the heart of this debate:
8th Fire: Aboriginal peoples, Canada and the way forward
Special CBC reports: http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/8thfire/index.html
 
Thank you for this information. It will take some time for me to properly digest all of it. But as a start I can say this:

Overpayment happens because we allow it to happen. That can change, too. I would like to hear Canadians ask why the president of the University of Alberta, Indira Samarasekera, received $627,000 in the 2007-2008 fiscal year, which includes house and car allowances, performance bonuses and deferred compensation. Her salary had increased 6 per cent compared to the year before.

I had plenty of questions when the President of Carleton University had his office redecorated at an expense of one million dollars. To say that we don't make a sound is not true.

I would also like to point out that I support workfare as opposed to welfare, for those who are capable. Growing up I knew white families who were on welfare for *generations*. I did not care for that at all.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the perception I had was that reserves were meant to be sovereign land for use by natives to live traditional lifestyles, and that funding was there to supplement that. If they mostly pay taxes and work off-reserve as you have stated above, then yes I suppose there should be some kind of equivalent benefit that the average non-native taxpayer would enjoy in his municipality, but then doesn't it cease to be a traditional lifestyle? I'm not trying to aggravate, just seeking clarification. As well, I understand what was said about different communities having different wants and needs, so perhaps speaking generally will not work here. This is, to say the least, a complex issue.
 
Last edited:
Agreed there is...and I have no problem being civil. If one wants respect and understanding than one also needs to give respect and understanding. I will not tolerate bashing or name calling either!


Lmao...Russia??

Anyway, in response to Sadosubliminal, I posted an article written by a "non-native" Journalist in regards to Natives and the "Idle No More" Protest.

The "Idle No More" movement began in protest of Bill C45...which I believe all Canadians should be concerned with, not only Natives. If you want to talk about the loss of hunting grounds, this Bill C45 will see the destruction of protected lands and waterways across Canada.

As far as the Treaties, if you want an in depth explanation of the texts, you'll have to hire a lawyer, but basically you "hit the nail on the head" with regard to what most Treaties "entitle" the natives to.
 
Thoughtful words clearing up some misconceptions.





Why I Support Idle No More

I am no longer a journalist, and I do not seek a bully pulpit on any topic, but tonight I want to explain to my family and friends why I give my unqualified support to the Idle No More movement as a Canadian citizen.

I am becoming more and more concerned about the harsh backlash among non-aboriginal Canadians against this peaceful protest movement. I’m not talking exclusively about virulent racial bigotry and hate speech, although it exists in dark places, but more about the willful denial of reality, the blindness to injustice, among many decent people.

These are the people I address tonight. I respect their right to a different opinion, but I hope they will hear me out.

Four Saskatchewan women—Nina Wilson, Sylvia McAdam, Sheelah McLean and Jessica Gordon—and Chief Theresa Spence of Attawapiskat First Nation in northern Ontario found the courage to say that a change is going to come. Thousands of indigenous people across Canada are demonstrating in peaceful ways to tell the country that they will wait no longer for that change. When I see round dances in shopping malls, peaceful road blockades, or a chief on a hunger strike, I see an opportunity to learn more about the deep frustration of my neighbours. I see no threat at all.

The protesters are asking for the country I want for myself, and for my family.

Millions of Canadians do respect First Nations, Metis and Inuit legal rights because these rights are guaranteed in our modern Constitution, frequently upheld by our highest courts, entrenched in our historic treaties, and valued in our intermingled family connections, our friendships, our minds and our hearts.

Many of us badly want the Canadian government to respect Indigenous land, resources, cultural ways, and most of all their right to self-determination.

I feel hopeful—wildly hopeful—that a core demand of the Idle No More movement for stronger protection of our shared natural environment will spread to Canadians of all racial backgrounds and political allegiances. I also hope that the Harper government will think twice in future before it passes omnibus legislation with minimal parliamentary debate or national consultation on the contents.

If the Idle No More movement has allies, and it does, we need to be more outspoken. Our silence in 2013 will be interpreted as complicity, and polite agreement, with everything that is wrong with the relationship between Canada and the founding peoples. Firm support for Idle No More could push the whole nation forward in a new and more positive direction.

We need to stand beside indigenous peoples when they confront an obtuse federal government that consistently undermines their success while it scolds them about local governance. In our homes and communities, we need to challenge the mockery, the simplistic assumptions, the casual and devastating bigotry that diminish Canada and make it a smaller, narrower place than it deserves to be.

As some of you know, I have worked for most of my adult life as a reporter, writer and oral history transcriber with enduring connections to many First Nations and Metis people and their communities in different parts of Canada, primarily in the West. That doesn’t make me an expert in anything, but I have had a rare opportunity to learn from the true experts – the people themselves, their life experiences, their values, their hopes. I have witnessed with my own eyes hardships and injustices that took my breath away, not only in Attawapiskat in 2010, but in almost every province and territory over three decades.

To those comfortable Canadians who complain that their hard-earned tax dollars disappear down a huge funnel to places like Attawapiskat, I say: Visit the place yourself, or any other isolated, northern Aboriginal community, and you might notice that most inhabitants, primarily children and old people, endure substandard public services beyond the imagination of southern, urban Canadians.

They can’t count on clean drinking water, warm housing, decent elementary schools, safe roads, good fire protection or sewage systems—all services that white Canadians in neighbouring towns and cities take for granted. Other Canadians can rely on fairly capable local and provincial governments while First Nations have to contend with the inept budgeting practices of the federal Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, not to mention the restrictive nature of our hideous national antique, the Indian Act. Read it some time. It will change your view of your country.

To those Canadians who allege that all chiefs and band councils are robber barons who “make more than the prime minister,” and run a vast northern kleptocracy, I say: I have never heard an Idle No More activist or an Aboriginal person in any community defend overpayment of band officials, padding of expense accounts, or local corruption. Just as I have never heard any Canadian, anywhere, justify the overpayment of local, provincial or federal elected and public employees, although this also happens with depressing regularity.

Overpayment happens because we allow it to happen. That can change, too. I would like to hear Canadians ask why the president of the University of Alberta, Indira Samarasekera, received $627,000 in the 2007-2008 fiscal year, which includes house and car allowances, performance bonuses and deferred compensation. Her salary had increased 6 per cent compared to the year before.

Folks, she earned more that Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S. president Barack Obama that year while Alberta students contended with steady tuition increases. She earned more than any First Nation chief I’ve ever heard of. Yet do we hear waves of public indignation about the continuing high salaries of university and college presidents across Canada? Even a murmur? We do not.

We swallow similar bad news about other elected and public officials who receive sky-high salaries, benefits, and sometimes, huge severance payments after dismissal for poor performance. That’s our tax money, too. We could at least apply our indignation evenly across the country, and we might question the national preoccupation with compensation to chiefs, and how and why that obsession came to be.

Long ago, when I was reporting for the Edmonton Journal in 1980 or 1981, I received a brown envelope from a Department of Indian Affairs finance officer containing documents on the salary and benefits of an outspoken Cree leader Harold Cardinal who was working at the time to assist the northern Dene Tha’ with poor conditions on their reserve. I was in my early twenties at the time, and inexperienced, and yes, I supplied the news story that brought a good man’s hard work into disrepute, fortunately temporarily. I was a little pawn on a chessboard, pushed forward, to do the government’s bidding. Shut him up. Shut it down.

I learned a hard lesson from that experience. I began to watch the situation more carefully. In the following three decades I noticed that each time First Nations and Metis leaders, or activists in the community, demanded their legal rights or a fair share of Canada’s abundant resources, similar official brown envelopes would whiz in the direction of good, bad or indifferent reporters and media commentators. These journalists would dutifully report the news of overpayments--as they should, it is indefensible--but without any context or understanding of how they were being used to silence, ignore and marginalize Aboriginal people in great need.

Does the federal government release similar figures to the media about the plump expense accounts of its own senior deputy ministers? No, it does not. The Harper government encourages significant overpayments to a favoured few, on the one hand, and then spins this information to discredit the legitimate claims of an entire group of people. This is not good governance. This is dysfunctional manipulation.

I don’t blame many southern Canadians for their singular focus on chiefs’ salaries—that’s just about all they’ve heard from the shills in the conservative media for two decades—but I don’t think people understand that federal transfers to First Nations are often significantly lower than provincial transfers to non-aboriginal communities for the same services. The Auditor General and Parliamentary Budget Officer have confirmed this fact again and again, and conscientious people in provincial and local governments and in the media have complained about it.

Try to calculate how much public money your town or city receives for every school and hospital, for all salaries of local public employees, for road and bridge construction, for police and fire departments, for sewer lines, garbage disposal, recycling, public transit and so on. That amounts to many millions of dollars a year, too, even for small communities. Canadians interpret these financial transfers as a right of citizenship, the cost of a civil society.

More than one million people in Canada describe themselves as Aboriginal, and more than 700,000 have First Nations status. The Government of Canada will spent about $8 billion this year for the budget of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, including all transfers to more than 600 communities. About twenty per cent of the total goes to departmental administration expenses, but look at the $8 billion. That’s the same amount that New Brunswick will spend this year on public services for its 751,000 people.

To those Canadians who say, “But I pay taxes, and they don’t, so I have earned these services, and they haven’t,” I say in reply: A large majority of First Nations people and all Metis people, now live off-reserve, work for a living, and do pay taxes. It is the Canadian way to provide public services for all citizens, even those without paid employment, such as the elderly, parents caring for children at home, people with disabilities, and people who earn too little in their jobs to pay significant taxes. Some people on reserves, and in neighbouring non-aboriginal communities too, fall into these categories. Why should we resent them? Their gifts to us are beyond the measure of money.

More important, this country is affluent and comfortable by international standards because of the rich natural resources it extracts from its northern and western regions, the traditional territory of many First Nations and Metis people. They have paid and paid the rest of Canada—in lost revenue, over generations—for the miserable level of public services they have received through much of the last century. They have received no fair share of the benefits of a rich nation, and it is time they did.

To the Canadians who say, “But Idle No More leaders should be more specific, they should define their terms, I don’t know what they want,” I say: Where have you been hiding throughout your lifetime? If you don’t know what they want, you haven’t been listening.

The parents and grandparents of Idle No More activists lined up at the microphones at the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Inquiry after 1974, patiently explaining to the country why their land and sovereignty needed to be respected. Decade after decade, others spoke to parliamentary committee hearings, First Ministers conferences, and every MP and reporter who would listen to them.

Year after year, they testified at hearings of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and at hearings of the United Nations human rights bodies. In case after case, they took the federal government to the Supreme Court of Canada to press for legitimate recognition of their land claims and treaty and Aboriginal rights. They negotiated the Kelowna Accord with the former prime minister, and then saw the deal collapse.

Their frustrations found expression at Oka and Burnt Church and Ipperwash, Ont., in the protest marches through the streets of Edmonton and Winnipeg, in the railway blockades in B.C. They celebrated many victories and land claims settlements along the way, and found allies, and achieved significant improvements on their own initiative.

If you don’t know about this yet, it is not too late to learn. Rather than demand that other people define their terms immediately in language you are ready to accept, just listen, and remember what you have heard.

It shouldn’t be necessary to say that diverse Aboriginal communities have different definitions of sovereignty, and different interpretations of their relationship with the Canadian state. People are different. Communities are different. No single answer is the total or final answer on any public issue.

The very least Canadians can do is pay attention with some level of respect and gratitude for a largely peaceful protest movement. Other countries would envy us for Idle No More, and its non-violent core values. Their patience is a great gift to this country.

When the percentage of Aboriginal people in schools, colleges, universities, hospitals and jails matches their percentage of the Canadian population, some equality will have been achieved. Equality does not exist now.

I think this is a defining moment in Canadian history, a time when each citizen is asked to make a choice. Where do you stand? Where will your children and grandchildren want you to stand? I have made my decision. I leave your decision to you.

Thank you for listening.



To learn more about. . .

The Idle No More movement:

Website: www.idlenomore.ca
On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Idlenomore.official/?ref=ts&fref=ts
On Twitter #IdleNoMore

Nine questions about Idle No More, CBC report, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/01/04/f-idlenomore-faq.html

Duncan McCue CBC commentary: The cultural importance of Idle No More
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/01/08/f-vp-mccue-idle-no-more.html

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idle_No_More

Bill C-45, the fine print of the Omnibus Bill
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/10/19/pol-list-2nd-omnibus-bill.html

About Attawapiskat:

http://www.nfb.ca/film/people_of_kattawapiskak_river/ An NFB documentary by award-winning Alanis Obamsawin


“Still waiting in Attawapiskat,” Canadian Geographic magazine, Linda Goyette with photography by Liam Sharp

Attawapiskat finances:
The journalism of Chelsea Vowel
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/chelsea-vowel/attawapiskat-emergency_b_1127066.html
and
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/chelsea-vowel/attawapiskat_b_1734332.html


The issues at the heart of this debate:
8th Fire: Aboriginal peoples, Canada and the way forward
Special CBC reports: http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/8thfire/index.html

thank you for posting this , we definately need more folks with a real and deeper understanding to speak up in these threads
we all want a better canada, and here's to hoping that one day we will all have it to pass down to future generations.
 
Your welcome Sadosubliminal! As for the Journalist's comment regarding "Overpayment happens because we allow it to happen", I think she was generally speaking. There are always the few that can see a scam when it happens and will voice their concerns, but in general we do not hold the "Governing Authorities" accountable as a whole...hence "Idle No More".

I too support workfare....and would also like to see drug testing implermented into.
 
C
Lmao...You certainly proved my point...you ignorant racist hick! There are more alcoholic crack head white people than there are of Native people! Do research on how many white welfare recipients there are out there....you wanna take about handouts and draining the system! It's clear that it's you that has no clue what you are talking about! Suck it up and find new hunting grounds you cry baby :bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug:!!

Bahaha. I am sure there are lmao. I am sure there are chuckle.

You still can't answer why it was bad back then but it is ok now? This ancestor bs has gone on long enough. You can't continue to hide behind that bs taking handouts much longer.

And if whiteys started to blockade and burn things because they feel they have claims to land would that be ok?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom