Algonquin land claim details released
- Thread starter Ikantski
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You hit the nail right on the head. As I stated earlier, my wife is Inuit. Her mom worked at a fish plant in Labrador, and her father worked as a lineman for a communications repair company. There are far too many natives that decide to live on reserves and get their welfare check every month. They don't work or contribute at all to society. Their kids are raised being shown that you can go through your entire life with no education and no job.
Welfare isn't just a Native problem, you just notice it more because they are in concentrated groups....I know some Natives on the system, but I know far more Caucasians doing so, some of them being 3rd-4th generation..Out of the 3 million playing the system, natives are a small %...
canadian hunter312
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actually, you've mentioned nothing but excuses. you're blaming the government for the lifestyle YOU and YOUR families CHOSE. many natives CHOOSE to leave reserves because they believe in supporting themselves rather than taking handouts and think we should all be treated as equals. the government isn't helping matters? yeah, because the government is forcing natives to live the way the majority CHOOSE to live
that said, i have dozens of friends who are 100% native and live on the six nations reserve. the majority of them actually brag about how they have more rights, get free handouts all the time, often get charges dropped because of their race, and how nice it is to get a free ride on the backs of taxpayers.
here's a tip. if you want to be treated like other canadians, start acting like them
Avalonthas
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u got it
canadian hunter312
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wow...it's not too often you hear that in the year of 2012 when people do nothing but put the blame on someone else. gone are the days of people taking accountability for their actions.
in canada, where we're allowed to make our own choices, blaming others for the way you live your life is the weakest excuse you can make.
actually, you've mentioned nothing but excuses. you're blaming the government for the lifestyle YOU and YOUR families CHOSE. many natives CHOOSE to leave reserves because they believe in supporting themselves rather than taking handouts and think we should all be treated as equals. the government isn't helping matters? yeah, because the government is forcing natives to live the way the majority CHOOSE to live
that said, i have dozens of friends who are 100% native and live on the six nations reserve. the majority of them actually brag about how they have more rights, get free handouts all the time, often get charges dropped because of their race, and how nice it is to get a free ride on the backs of taxpayers.
here's a tip. if you want to be treated like other canadians, start acting like them
Man, you seem to know a lot about me! You are obviously one of the narrow minded posters that I had referred to earlier. I earn my living and also pay taxes, thank you very much.
Wrong Way
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Man, you seem to know a lot about me! You are obviously one of the narrow minded posters that I had referred to earlier. I earn my living and also pay taxes, thank you very much.
Well good for you...congrats on being a normal Canadian
Now...get the rest on board and we can end the discussions.
bearkilr
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So you're saying the percentage of natives which are on welfare/assistance is lower than the percentage of caucasians/asian/hispanic/etc. on welfare? I believe you're quite wrong in that respect. Total number, perhaps, but not as a percentage of that ethnicity.
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I love how threads like these are laden with the type of racism that is only inspired by the fact that most Canadians are truly clueless about anything that has to do with Canadian history, including Native issues.
I could make a long post about it since it is my area of research and what I currently teach. However, I won't since I suspect that those who wish to remain willfully ignorant will choose to stay exactly that and anything following will be a waste of energy. However, I will say that government policy towards Aboriginal Canadians has left a legacy of distrust, dysfunctional communities, and inter-generational trauma. It was a complex system which still produces a variety of complex and nuanced problems to this day. It is important to keep in mind that the treaty system originally conceived in Canada was designed to make the natives dependent on the federal government, legally rendering them "minors". This was done in an effort to gain access to lands for settlement and development, and also to give the government a chance to assimilate them since they would now be at arm's length (being dependent). The problem was that the government had a hell of time honoring agreements they made, creating issues that last until this day.
If anyone wants to learn something about Canadian history and wants a good historical overview on the land claims issue, I would suggest reading "Skyscrapers Hide the Heavens: A History of Indian-White Relations in Canada" by historian J.R. Miller.
I could make a long post about it since it is my area of research and what I currently teach. However, I won't since I suspect that those who wish to remain willfully ignorant will choose to stay exactly that and anything following will be a waste of energy. However, I will say that government policy towards Aboriginal Canadians has left a legacy of distrust, dysfunctional communities, and inter-generational trauma. It was a complex system which still produces a variety of complex and nuanced problems to this day. It is important to keep in mind that the treaty system originally conceived in Canada was designed to make the natives dependent on the federal government, legally rendering them "minors". This was done in an effort to gain access to lands for settlement and development, and also to give the government a chance to assimilate them since they would now be at arm's length (being dependent). The problem was that the government had a hell of time honoring agreements they made, creating issues that last until this day.
If anyone wants to learn something about Canadian history and wants a good historical overview on the land claims issue, I would suggest reading "Skyscrapers Hide the Heavens: A History of Indian-White Relations in Canada" by historian J.R. Miller.
Where there is will, there is a way.
That's why we can't fully understand why they can't 'grow up' and move out from Momma's basement.
I am not racist in the least, not prejudice.
I judge based on what I can observe. I am always open to a change of opinion, but not simply because it has become politically correct.
I also do not paint all with the same brush. There is a very good talk show on a local co-op radio station that has native issues, and other First Nations topics. I find it eye opening, and stereotypical at the same time.
I don't change the station though. It is very informative.
It is good to hear the other side directly. Fills in the blanks.
That's why we can't fully understand why they can't 'grow up' and move out from Momma's basement.
I am not racist in the least, not prejudice.
I judge based on what I can observe. I am always open to a change of opinion, but not simply because it has become politically correct.
I also do not paint all with the same brush. There is a very good talk show on a local co-op radio station that has native issues, and other First Nations topics. I find it eye opening, and stereotypical at the same time.
I don't change the station though. It is very informative.
It is good to hear the other side directly. Fills in the blanks.
It was noted by a long-serving Catholic priest on the Prairies in the 1870s or 80s that there would soon be not a single full blooded "Indian" left on the Prairies.
There is undoubtedly not a single aboriginal south of 60 who is not partly Caucasian and probably most of them are now more than 50% Caucasian, many much more.
So what is an aboriginal Canadian? Someone who has legal status regardless of their actual ethnicity? If that person is mostly non-aboriginal genetically, how can they be considered "aboriginal"?
It may be fashionable and profitable now to pretend that "whites" were all out to get the "Indians", but in reality even in the 1600s the Noble Savage myth was thriving among the earnest folk of the Eastern seaboard. Those who were being scalped or dismembered on the frontier disagreeing with those gentle souls safe in Rhode Island or Baltimore who held that it was all the fault of the wild frontiersmen in provoking the noble savages.
Things were a bit different in Canada. Yes, there was lots of cheating on land deals etc. Lots of settlers cheated too. Cheaters rarely discriminate among their victims, one is as good as another.
The aboriginals made war and alliances just like other tribes, large and small. Some practised cannibalism, most slavery, almost all misogyny. Warfare was the common sport, along with horse and woman stealing, although to be fair such chattels were often bartered for in a regular manner.
Genocide was perfectly acceptable if practicable: the Hurons for example were exterminated by the Mohawks, or was it the Iroquois I forget? On Vancouver Island a group of Makah crossed the Strait of Juan de Fuca in the early 1800s and exterminated the local Salish and settled in their place. They now enjoy all the status of Canadian aboriginals.
It's unfortunate that the Indians did not possess the enzyme to digest alcohol, but the blame for its effects has to lie mostly with those who choose to use it, since it was and is a legal drug in our society. Countless white missionaries and teachers and others have tried to ameliorate the conditions of aboriginal life in Canada, often with great, but temporary success. For some reason such leaders rarely seem to arise from within the aboriginal community however.
The life of paid idleness that aboriginals now enjoy in Canada has not been to their benefit, but few seem to campaign for its end.
Ultimately, the problems can only be solved by aboriginals themselves. "White" Canada has done more and paid more than any other country in the world for its aboriginal population. The physically and morally squalid conditions that prevail on so many reserves are the result of the inability or unwillingness of the residents to change their own way of living. In the final analysis no one can change those things but them. I sincerely wish them every success in doing so.
White society does provide an escape route for those who want to leave the squalor, but by doing so it also defuses the pressure for change on the reservations.
Those who have seen the problem close up know that no amount of pious, politically correct drivel will change the underlying problems, however profitable it may be for white lawyers and their pilot fish, however comfortable the illusion of "guilt" and its concomitant illusion of the power to "fix" aboriginal society.
The bill requiring the disclosure of salaries for aboriginal leadership will be a good first step to bringing some accountability to a leadership class which is in sore need of some.
There is undoubtedly not a single aboriginal south of 60 who is not partly Caucasian and probably most of them are now more than 50% Caucasian, many much more.
So what is an aboriginal Canadian? Someone who has legal status regardless of their actual ethnicity? If that person is mostly non-aboriginal genetically, how can they be considered "aboriginal"?
It may be fashionable and profitable now to pretend that "whites" were all out to get the "Indians", but in reality even in the 1600s the Noble Savage myth was thriving among the earnest folk of the Eastern seaboard. Those who were being scalped or dismembered on the frontier disagreeing with those gentle souls safe in Rhode Island or Baltimore who held that it was all the fault of the wild frontiersmen in provoking the noble savages.
Things were a bit different in Canada. Yes, there was lots of cheating on land deals etc. Lots of settlers cheated too. Cheaters rarely discriminate among their victims, one is as good as another.
The aboriginals made war and alliances just like other tribes, large and small. Some practised cannibalism, most slavery, almost all misogyny. Warfare was the common sport, along with horse and woman stealing, although to be fair such chattels were often bartered for in a regular manner.
Genocide was perfectly acceptable if practicable: the Hurons for example were exterminated by the Mohawks, or was it the Iroquois I forget? On Vancouver Island a group of Makah crossed the Strait of Juan de Fuca in the early 1800s and exterminated the local Salish and settled in their place. They now enjoy all the status of Canadian aboriginals.
It's unfortunate that the Indians did not possess the enzyme to digest alcohol, but the blame for its effects has to lie mostly with those who choose to use it, since it was and is a legal drug in our society. Countless white missionaries and teachers and others have tried to ameliorate the conditions of aboriginal life in Canada, often with great, but temporary success. For some reason such leaders rarely seem to arise from within the aboriginal community however.
The life of paid idleness that aboriginals now enjoy in Canada has not been to their benefit, but few seem to campaign for its end.
Ultimately, the problems can only be solved by aboriginals themselves. "White" Canada has done more and paid more than any other country in the world for its aboriginal population. The physically and morally squalid conditions that prevail on so many reserves are the result of the inability or unwillingness of the residents to change their own way of living. In the final analysis no one can change those things but them. I sincerely wish them every success in doing so.
White society does provide an escape route for those who want to leave the squalor, but by doing so it also defuses the pressure for change on the reservations.
Those who have seen the problem close up know that no amount of pious, politically correct drivel will change the underlying problems, however profitable it may be for white lawyers and their pilot fish, however comfortable the illusion of "guilt" and its concomitant illusion of the power to "fix" aboriginal society.
The bill requiring the disclosure of salaries for aboriginal leadership will be a good first step to bringing some accountability to a leadership class which is in sore need of some.
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canadian hunter312
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- Brant County
Man, you seem to know a lot about me! You are obviously one of the narrow minded posters that I had referred to earlier. I earn my living and also pay taxes, thank you very much.
you missed the part where i said i have dozens of friends who are native and live on the reserve. also, my great uncle was married to a native and lived on the reserve for 40+ years so i've spent a lot time on the six nations reserve. my opinion is based on what i've seen friends and family say and do for as long as i can remember. i find it odd that you disagree with what i say when the majority of natives i know already agree with me.
that said, they all know how i feel about their special treatment and it's turned into some heated arguments and a nervous white boy a few times
ZING!
you missed the part where i said i have dozens of friends who are native and live on the reserve. also, my great uncle was married to a native and lived on the reserve for 40+ years so i've spent a lot time on the six nations reserve. my opinion is based on what i've seen friends and family say and do for as long as i can remember. i find it odd that you disagree with what i say when the majority of natives i know already agree with me.
that said, they all know how i feel about their special treatment and it's turned into some heated arguments and a nervous white boy a few times
What exactly did I disagree with, in regards to your post? The only part that I object to is how you've portrayed me. By choosing to live that lifestyle? Exactly what lifestyle? As I stated, you know nothing about me as an individual, but that didn't stop you from stereotyping me as the average Indian choosing to live in a dysfunctional society.
There are a lot of good hard working people that live on Reservations. By reading your post though, you have painted a picture of a bunch of lazy bums waiting for their social assistance cheques.
Now I don't know you either, but I somehow doubt that you've made clear your thoughts about Indians to your "dozens of friends". I would think your viewpoint might lead to more than a few heated arguments. Anyhow, you have your way of thought along with many others here, and that is okay. Everybody is entitled to their opinions. Have a nice day!
blasted_saber
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- A blue part of Ontario
Be interesting to see how much of it goes up for sale once the treaty is signed and the parcels transferred. Could work out to some camps benefits if they're able to purchase land that was previously Crown that they could not purchase before.
We have a camp in the biggest area the algonquins are taking. It's been there since the 20s well before there were roads in the area. The camp has always maintained a complete set of records and not until the mid 90s did we ever start to meet algonquins.. Not that you can tell an Algonquin seeing as most have red beards and last names like McDonald and Montgomery. We are going to lose our hunting area that we've been hunting almost exclusively for 90 years. I have a connection to this land more so than any "Algonquin". Regardless of any land claim ill never stop hunting there.
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