All is Not Right in Eotech Land... *UPDATE Getting Worse*

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knock-knock said:
Never heard someone downplay something so blindly. The sight can experience huge temperature swings in all weather conditions. Pulling the gun out of a warm car into -30 temperatures?? Then squeezing off a few mags and warming the receiver up by 100 degrees? Or perhaps pulling the gun out of a boiling hot car trunk on a hot humid summer day??

Sorry but your downplay is bogus. A 4" shift at 100 is hardly noticeable??? Jeez.
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So how many times do you do those things? Did you notice that you couldn't hit the evil gong downrange? You weren't comfortable shooting around the hostage to hit the terrorist in the eye?

I'm not saying the claims are untrue but my EOTech XPS has never shifted more than an inch or so from one range session to the next or throughout the day as the rifle warms up. A click or two correction is all that's ever needed and I don't even notice it unless I put the rifle on the sandbags to verify my zero.
You realize that your ammo does the same thing right? Shoot at -20c and after a few shots the chamber is nice and toasty and if you let a round sit in there and warm up you will have a POI shift. Same thing if you sight in when it's cold out then shoot the same ammo when it's 25c and you've just pulled the ammo from your hot trunk.
Maybe we should all just start slamming every ammo manufacturer for their substandard ammo. Even "temp stable" powders do it to a certain degree.

This is why as a civilian shooter this doesn't bother me, there are so many factors that effect your POI that a small shift of your sight zero on a range day is of very little concern to me. No one is shooting back, I'm not being scored on my first 5 shots, which is all it would take to test and adjust the sight. If I'm shooting offhand I'm pretty sure I'm wobbling at least 4 moa.
So yes, a 4 inch shift at 100 is hardly noticeable unless you're a bench shooter, at which point I would tell you that you're probably using the wrong optic for your application.
Don't be lazy, bang... click, click.... bang.... click... bang... there it's back on zero for now. It isn't that hard to adjust and even if you're law enforcement or military I really doubt anyone is going to be using their dot sight equipped rifle for precision work at 100m, they're going to wait for the squad marksman and his bolt action to show up to shoot the terrorist who's hiding behind the civilian.
And 4moa is still a center of mass hit at 100m so is it really that noticeable? Especially if you throw some adrenaline into the formula and now you're bouncing all over the place.
Typical internet hype, exaggerate everything and make a mountain out of a molehill.
 
Oh your $750 sight only shifts an inch or so between range trips? Cool.

By the way, you wobbling 4 inches at 100 yards only makes the 4 MOA sight shift that much worse... it doesn't cancel it out.

I understand this doesn't bother you and you're only shooting paper. The point is that its an expensive piece of equipment which you probably bought because of its perceived quality in the first place.
 
knock-knock said:
Oh your $750 sight only shifts an inch or so between range trips? Cool.

By the way, you wobbling 4 inches at 100 yards only makes the 4 MOA sight shift that much worse... it doesn't cancel it out.

I understand this doesn't bother you and you're only shooting paper. The point is that its an expensive piece of equipment which you probably bought because of its perceived quality in the first place.
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Expensive are my Nightforce scopes, this is a $500 dot sight that I don't use for anything other than banging gongs with my 9mm AR at 25-50 yards and very rarely at 100 yards.
Sure, it would be better without any shift but I would never know if it's the optic, the mount, me using the QD mount to take it off and putting it back on, the wind, a diferent lot of powder in my handloads, my shooting, or some combination of the above.

All I'm saying is that for the average civilian shooter on a one way range it's not the end of the world, I won't be selling it to buy another Aimpoint PRO.
If I was military or law enforcement I would be using whatever I was issued so for a thread like this to go on and on about something this trivial seems silly to me.
Sure, if I was going shopping for a new dot sight I would probably go with another Aimpoint now but my EOTech has served me well and I'm sure it will keep doing what I need it to do for a long time.
 
84wh1 said:
Last I checked it was a Navy Seal who killed UBL and not a low quality optic

Sorry, just being a smart ass! Lol
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That's kind of funny. Anyway, wasn't Eotechs designed for close range anyway? How much of shift are we talking about in real world situation?
 
cr5 said:
I got mine in a trade, so I didn't pay retail for it :p
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Well, if you are happy with it for the price you paid, that's really all that matters.

If I paid aimpoint money for one I'd be choked...but then I probably wouldn't have done that and it sounds like you wouldn't have either, which is sensible. The big news in this thread isn't the performance issues, for which they've been notorious for years, but the SEC and distributor stuff, which is not going to affect end users much. Unless they try to get them fixed, I guess.

But I'm actually surprised this is even making waves anywhere. I genuinely thought most of this was common knowledge...although that is a hazard of working in this industry. You end up with a totally warped perception of what "common knowledge" is.
 
misanthropist said:
Well, if you are happy with it for the price you paid, that's really all that matters.

If I paid aimpoint money for one I'd be choked...but then I probably wouldn't have done that and it sounds like you wouldn't have either, which is sensible. The big news in this thread isn't the performance issues, for which they've been notorious for years, but the SEC and distributor stuff, which is not going to affect end users much. Unless they try to get them fixed, I guess.

But I'm actually surprised this is even making waves anywhere. I genuinely thought most of this was common knowledge...although that is a hazard of working in this industry. You end up with a totally warped perception of what "common knowledge" is.
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Yeah , before this thread , I've never heard anything really bad about the Eotech aside from battery issues , I would of thought , there would of been a lot more about this for as long as this has been a problem out in the real world .
 
M10 said:
An Eotech killed Osama so whatever i'm still using mine.
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There's debate whether or not OBL was actually shot on that raid but I digress. According to the reports he was shot at like 17 feet, which would make absolutely no difference with an Eotech that had a 4-6 moa POI shift. Hardly empirical data.

jtlee said:
That's kind of funny. Anyway, wasn't Eotechs designed for close range anyway? How much of shift are we talking about in real world situation?
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If you read the release from USSOCOM you'd know the POI shift is reported as 4-6 MOA.

Jerry Champagne said:
I used them on 4 tours in trashcanastan. And have 2 on my ARS. I actually have one on my KAC currently. Good enough for the CANSOF good enough for me punching paper praying for zombie apocalypse
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The CF issued plastic backup sights, the ####ty C79 Elcan, the useless tri-rail and a non modular vest with the bayonet mount inverted. Not the most reputable source for vetting kit.

Greenhorse six said:
Yeah , before this thread , I've never heard anything really bad about the Eotech aside from battery issues , I would of thought , there would of been a lot more about this for as long as this has been a problem out in the real world .
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The other issues of reticle fade, dead spots on the lens, intermittent on and off operation etc etc are well known if you do a little poking around the internet.

TW25B
 
Greenhorse six said:
Yeah , before this thread , I've never heard anything really bad about the Eotech aside from battery issues , I would of thought , there would of been a lot more about this for as long as this has been a problem out in the real world .
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There's a ton of info on this out there if you do a bit of digging. They're notorious for dying on high-volume courses of fire.
 
misanthropist said:
Well, if you are happy with it for the price you paid, that's really all that matters.

If I paid aimpoint money for one I'd be choked...but then I probably wouldn't have done that and it sounds like you wouldn't have either, which is sensible. The big news in this thread isn't the performance issues, for which they've been notorious for years, but the SEC and distributor stuff, which is not going to affect end users much. Unless they try to get them fixed, I guess.

But I'm actually surprised this is even making waves anywhere. I genuinely thought most of this was common knowledge...although that is a hazard of working in this industry. You end up with a totally warped perception of what "common knowledge" is.
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what industry do you work in?
 
TW25B said:
There's debate whether or not OBL was actually shot on that raid but I digress. According to the reports he was shot at like 17 feet, which would make absolutely no difference with an Eotech that had a 4-6 moa POI shift. Hardly empirical data.



If you read the release from USSOCOM you'd know the POI shift is reported as 4-6 MOA.



The CF issued plastic backup sights, the ####ty C79 Elcan, the useless tri-rail and a non modular vest with the bayonet mount inverted. Not the most reputable source for vetting kit.



The other issues of reticle fade, dead spots on the lens, intermittent on and off operation etc etc are well known if you do a little poking around the internet.

TW25B
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1. Yes indeed they do issue plastic back up sights which when the immediately into my MOB where it stayed for almost 5 yrs
2. The C79 has it's place...however it's not on any of my rifles
3. Tri rail = useless
4. I again I agree the tac vest is junk but you may be suprised to know that 99% of the " outside the wire" guys never wore that silly thing on a single patrol.
To summaries I spent 32 months in the op box about 30 of those months I had an eotech on from 120 down to -10 that eotech did what we asked it to do time and time again not one time did I hear guys complain about the eotech while counting on it to save their lifes ! So in my experience the sight is quality. You get out there and use it instead of reading a report and make an informed decision.
I can confirm CANSOF is CURRENTLY running eotechs so they can't be all that bad... but I guess a report written bye whos knows who and with what motives trumps all real world first hand experience
 
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