All is Not Right in Eotech Land... *UPDATE Getting Worse*

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Jerry Champagne said:
1. Yes indeed they do issue plastic back up sights which when the immediately into my MOB where it stayed for almost 5 yrs
2. The C79 has it's place...however it's not on any of my rifles
3. Tri rail = useless
4. I again I agree the tac vest is junk but you may be suprised to know that 99% of the " outside the wire" guys never wore that silly thing on a single patrol.
To summaries I spent 32 months in the op box about 30 of those months I had an eotech on from 120 down to -10 that eotech did what we asked it to do time and time again not one time did I hear guys complain about the eotech while counting on it to save their lifes ! So in my experience the sight is quality. You get out there and use it instead of reading a report and make an informed decision.
I can confirm CANSOF is CURRENTLY running eotechs so they can't be all that bad... but I guess a report written bye whos knows who and with what motives trumps all real world first hand experience
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Awesome. Thank you sir, and thank you for your service!
 
Jerry Champagne said:
1. Yes indeed they do issue plastic back up sights which when the immediately into my MOB where it stayed for almost 5 yrs
2. The C79 has it's place...however it's not on any of my rifles
3. Tri rail = useless
4. I again I agree the tac vest is junk but you may be suprised to know that 99% of the " outside the wire" guys never wore that silly thing on a single patrol.
To summaries I spent 32 months in the op box about 30 of those months I had an eotech on from 120 down to -10 that eotech did what we asked it to do time and time again not one time did I hear guys complain about the eotech while counting on it to save their lifes ! So in my experience the sight is quality. You get out there and use it instead of reading a report and make an informed decision.
I can confirm CANSOF is CURRENTLY running eotechs so they can't be all that bad... but I guess a report written bye whos knows who and with what motives trumps all real world first hand experience
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That report was written by USSOCOM and was tested and verified by NSW Crane division. Have a read as to just who both of those entities are then get back to us with your limited experience with Eotech optics. Your trouble free use and the lack of complaints from others has no quantifiable value. I appreciate your service but have met many a serving personnel who had little knowledge of the equipment they use. You say that if it's good enough for CANSOF to use it's good enough for you. I say if it's getting yanked by USSOCOM then it's not good enough for me. Having owned and shot Eotech optics I will say mine had no issues, it was the much older rev F 552 series. The issues reported are not new, they are very well known and haven't been rectified at all. If you wish to spend Aimpoint money on an optic that does not reliably hold zero, does not have consistent adjustment click values and has no published operating temperature range, then be my guest.

TW25B
 
TW25B said:
That report was written by USSOCOM and was tested and verified by NSW Crane division. Have a read as to just who both of those entities are then get back to us with your limited experience with Eotech optics. Your trouble free use and the lack of complaints from others has no quantifiable value. I appreciate your service but have met many a serving personnel who had little knowledge of the equipment they use. You say that if it's good enough for CANSOF to use it's good enough for you. I say if it's getting yanked by USSOCOM then it's not good enough for me. Having owned and shot Eotech optics I will say mine had no issues, it was the much older rev F 552 series. The issues reported are not new, they are very well known and haven't been rectified at all. If you wish to spend Aimpoint money on an optic that does not reliably hold zero, does not have consistent adjustment click values and has no published operating temperature range, then be my guest.

TW25B
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My limited use... nice dig...I guess you could consider 60-65 eotech per platoon in the Battle Group plus atts would equal well over 500 units could be misconstrued as limited exposure.

I'll keep running mine
 
TW25B said:
That report was written by USSOCOM and was tested and verified by NSW Crane division. Have a read as to just who both of those entities are then get back to us with your limited experience with Eotech optics. Your trouble free use and the lack of complaints from others has no quantifiable value. I appreciate your service but have met many a serving personnel who had little knowledge of the equipment they use. You say that if it's good enough for CANSOF to use it's good enough for you. I say if it's getting yanked by USSOCOM then it's not good enough for me. Having owned and shot Eotech optics I will say mine had no issues, it was the much older rev F 552 series. The issues reported are not new, they are very well known and haven't been rectified at all. If you wish to spend Aimpoint money on an optic that does not reliably hold zero, does not have consistent adjustment click values and has no published operating temperature range, then be my guest.

TW25B
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Whats your experience in using Eotechs? If your going to make a dig at someone you better be level 56 expert. Or your a armchair commando that reads online too much.
 
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ive owned 3 eotechs... 511, 552 and a 553 and they all crapped out on me or in the case of the 511 the guy i sold it to, mostly battery compartment issues but the 552 also had a wonky screen where it just went spastic. thankfully wolverine covered the warrenty work....
 
Jerry Champagne said:
I used them on 4 tours in trashcanastan. And have 2 on my ARS. I actually have one on my KAC currently. Good enough for the CANSOF good enough for me punching paper praying for zombie apocalypse
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Hey your 4 tours dont matter compared to the all knowing keyboard warriors and their internet research skillz.....
 
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TinkerBell said:
the real question is what aluminium is used in the the construction of the eotech..... is it 6061 or 7075 ? is it milspec ?
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Apparently there's a process for forging 6061 now which renders it immune to the particular type of corrosion that early Colt 6061 receivers saw, which I think I mentioned at the time I looked into 6061 (which I was skeptical about initially but I really don't think it's an issue - not that NEA doesn't have other issues to worry about).

Although whether NEA is interested in using the improved 6061 forging process, I have no idea. Even when I was in regular contact with them, their goals shifted pretty frequently.

But I don't think 6061 is a problematic alloy for AR receivers in billet form. If the new forging process has in fact resolved the corrosion issues that caused Colt to abandon it in favour of 7075, then I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more 6061 in use.

ARs don't ask a lot of their receivers.
 
M10 said:
Hey your 4 tours dont matter compared to the all knowing keyboard warriors and their internet research skillz...

3 gunners break more firearms than any other group of people on earth, any canasof guys break 2 glocks in 1 year, or have projectiles dropped off at their home in pallets. Countless of scope mounts, piles of glock and magpul mags for warranty , cracked gas tubes, handguards, trigger groups destroyed, aimpoints and trijicons to warranty, leaupold lasting 3 matches hahahahhahahaha pos, rain,mud,dessert heat, and snow. Ask a 3 gunner what works, and he wont lie. Give me a colt and ill break it in a month. Eotehcs are ok, some are good some are garbage, they suck in the snow, and when dropped alot they lose their zero. I believe because of its mounting system, i often replace mounts on scopes when i see my moa go up, and it goes back down. For close quarters its no big deal, you got a big target, but when using it in production aka limited 3 gun at 400 yards, the big and little red dot are aweful. Within 50 yards its all good, but i can point shoot within 50 yards anyways without looking at a red dot on a torso sie target. In my eyes, they are useless, the big dot and little dot and the 2 dot systems are the dumbest ideas ive seen on earth. Sometimes the batteries die prematurely, and that sucks big time, thats why so many of them run back up sights with the. I do like the tv window and big red dot for cqb, but i can do the same with an aimpoint m4 , batteries last 100 times longer and you dont have to worry about it fogging up, losing zero, losing power. I bet an eotech couldnt take me throwing it a barrel with my ar more than 10 times or a 2 day match before it lost zero. For the range and light practice , they would be fine . Any cansof guys consistently hit a 12 inch target at 400 to 500 yards in a few seconds haha, good 3 gunners do that all day long. This is why the US military has introduced 3 gun exercises as a new training program to test gear and to test accuracy under stress.
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misanthropist said:
Apparently there's a process for forging 6061 now which renders it immune to the particular type of corrosion that early Colt 6061 receivers saw, which I think I mentioned at the time I looked into 6061 (which I was skeptical about initially but I really don't think it's an issue - not that NEA doesn't have other issues to worry about).

Although whether NEA is interested in using the improved 6061 forging process, I have no idea. Even when I was in regular contact with them, their goals shifted pretty frequently.

But I don't think 6061 is a problematic alloy for AR receivers in billet form. If the new forging process has in fact resolved the corrosion issues that caused Colt to abandon it in favour of 7075, then I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more 6061 in use.

ARs don't ask a lot of their receivers.
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Billet doesn't = billet.

There are many ways to make aluminium billets, and the resulting billets are very different from a strenght, crystalline structure and PRICE standpoint. There is no such thing as aerospace grade aluminium billet, it's marketing bull####. You either have extruded billet or forged billet, I highly doubt what 6061- AR manufacturers use is anything else than extruded billet, which makes for a weak end-product once machined compared to the forged counterpart. When you enter the die-forged 7075 game, everything changes and the 6061 counterpart, even in forged billet form, is childs play.
 
0.5moa said:
M10 said:
Hey your 4 tours dont matter compared to the all knowing keyboard warriors and their internet research skillz...

3 gunners break more firearms than any other group of people on earth, any canasof guys break 2 glocks in 1 year, or have projectiles dropped off at their home in pallets. Countless of scope mounts, piles of glock and magpul mags for warranty , cracked gas tubes, handguards, trigger groups destroyed, aimpoints and trijicons to warranty, leaupold lasting 3 matches hahahahhahahaha pos, rain,mud,dessert heat, and snow. Ask a 3 gunner what works, and he wont lie. Give me a colt and ill break it in a month. Eotehcs are ok, some are good some are garbage, they suck in the snow, and when dropped alot they lose their zero. I believe because of its mounting system, i often replace mounts on scopes when i see my moa go up, and it goes back down. For close quarters its no big deal, you got a big target, but when using it in production aka limited 3 gun at 400 yards, the big and little red dot are aweful. Within 50 yards its all good, but i can point shoot within 50 yards anyways without looking at a red dot on a torso sie target. In my eyes, they are useless, the big dot and little dot and the 2 dot systems are the dumbest ideas ive seen on earth. Sometimes the batteries die prematurely, and that sucks big time, thats why so many of them run back up sights with the. I do like the tv window and big red dot for cqb, but i can do the same with an aimpoint m4 , batteries last 100 times longer and you dont have to worry about it fogging up, losing zero, losing power. I bet an eotech couldnt take me throwing it a barrel with my ar more than 10 times or a 2 day match before it lost zero. For the range and light practice , they would be fine . Any cansof guys consistently hit a 12 inch target at 400 to 500 yards in a few seconds haha, good 3 gunners do that all day long. This is why the US military has introduced 3 gun exercises as a new training program to test gear and to test accuracy under stress.
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CANSOF definitely does not run glock lol. Sig p226 which is an entirely separate discussion.

As far as being hard on kit goes this may be true but your not factoring in how that SF is used. It's not like conventional infantry is going order patrols to test atmospherics, do village assements, Adance to contact etc. Sf is a very deliberate direct specific group. If everything doesn't line up they don't go. If one little thing is off...they get her on the next one. The info needs to be good, aircraft visibility needs to be good, sig int lining up? , humint conflicting?, % of moon light, unaccounted for variable, etc etc etc. So a 3 gunner who's out there shooting daily would probably be a little harder on kit than a operator. But it's 2 very very different things entirely. As for the eotech again it's all very deliberate and planned if they are going cqb then thats all they are going to do, chopper drops u off on the roof top go in do you job picked up out back. In that case you would bring a dedicated cqb upper in our case is currently an eotech.

The other sight issued is a elcan specter DR 1-4 which I'm sure sucks as well if you look on line at the "research".

I'm not sure why I keep purchasing these terrible optics.

please not: This is CANADIAN GUN NUTS NOT US GUN NUTS so I could care less what they do. I personally only know 2 guys in the us sf community, in canada lots and again I have asked a few guy who I talking to regularly about this issue and they are aware that it does exist however everything is deliberate so you go to the artic you zero. Next week your In south America zero again. Different elevation, barometric pressure, etc etc etc.

So i could see if you were flying around from environment to environment all willy nilly how that would create a problem but professionals are professional for a resonance so the notion that your going to experience a major shift in the optic with out doing your proper SOPS is all verbal diarrhea to me

Out to you
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Dietz said:
Billet doesn't = billet.

There are many ways to make aluminium billets, and the resulting billets are very different from a strenght, crystalline structure and PRICE standpoint. There is no such thing as aerospace grade aluminium billet, it's marketing bull####. You either have extruded billet or forged billet, I highly doubt what 6061- AR manufacturers use is anything else than extruded billet, which makes for a weak end-product once machined compared to the forged counterpart. When you enter the die-forged 7075 game, everything changes and the 6061 counterpart, even in forged billet form, is childs play.
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Yeah, I just don't really think it matters on account of the fairly insignificant loads that AR receivers are expected to withstand. I don't disagree that forged 7075 is stronger in most respects - although I think there are advantages to a more elastic metal that haven't generally been explored - I just think that it's kind of neither here nor there. Colt switched from 6061 to 7075 to avoid the type of corrosion they were getting in Vietnam, not because they needed the strength.
 
I like my Eotechs as much as I like my Aimpoints. Different tools in my toolbox.

This news release doesn't suddenly make them behave any differently -- they'll continue to meet my needs and expectations as they would have if I had never read this.
 
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