Allergic to monos?
- Thread starter Leatherstocking
- Start date
Ok, this was my buddies, hunting with me. Shot just behind shoulder, found in opposite arm pit. It was a bit of work tracking this old boy. A second shot was required. I hadn't used barnes at that point and figured I never will. Well, i read lots about how good they are so I tried them reloading. I found it quite easy building a load for them, so I tried the in my 6.5 prc this year. As I mentioned earlier I used a 127lrx on the moose I shot. The moose died but.... it did go a ways before expiring, unlike most moose I have shot. The entry and exit holes were very small, exit very clean small hole. No bullet recovered of course. Sooo, I still love my accubonds. haha I don't think I will bother with them again, lots of info says they work great but not for me at this point.
Barnes are the only monos I’ve used, or seen used. TSX, TTSX and LRX have performed very well for us over the years. Nary a “failure”, and we’ve driven them in from all angles. I like the penetration they offer and the lack of lead in our meat.
Terminal performance on all bullets is going to be different as construction varies by manufacturer and bullet type. It's good to read up on bullet terminal performance and velocity ranges for proper expansion or structural integrity. A bullet designed for a 300 win can be fired from a 308 and it won't expand very well. Conversely a softer bullet can explode and fragment at higher velocities. In short, welcome to reloading, theres a lot of details when it comes to picking the right bullet as they're all made for a different purpose. So you have some reading ahead of you lol! Asking people about their experiences helps a lot too.
rifleman762
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Yeah, with a horrendous ballistic coefficient. That matters to me; why dump energy into the air instead of the animal?
Well that depends. On a bunch of things.
Most hunters have never heard of B.C.
rifleman762
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Not knowing the laws of physics doesn't change the laws of physics.
I did some math for the less knowledgeable in the audience. Let's compare a 30-cal 150gr TSX to a 200gr ELD-X from a 300 WM at book max loads from Alliant. 150gr starts out at 3316 fps, 200gr at 2932 fps. The 200gr has a 155 ft lb energy advantage at the muzzle, not a whole lot. But we don't usually shoot animals at the muzzle so muzzle energy and velocity don't matter. What matters is energy and velocity at impact, correct?
150 grain TSX at 3316 fps
Distance Velocity Energy Drop Wind Drift at 10mph
100y 3032 3060 +1.5 0.7
200y 2765 2546 +0.9 3.0
300y 2513 2104 -4.3 7.2
400y 2276 1726 -15 13
500y 2052 1402 -33 22
200 grain ELD-X at 2932 fps
Distance Velocity Energy Drop Wind Drift at 10mph
100y 2786 3446 +1.5 0.5
200y 2644 3103 +0.2 1.9
300y 2505 2787 -6.0 4.4
400y 2371 2496 -18 8
500y 2241 2230 -36 13
Looks like the 200gr ELD-X carries 22% more energy at 200 yards and 32% more energy at 300 yards than the 150gr TSX. That's significant. And is able to dump more of that energy inside the animal. The velocities are almost identical at 300. By 400 yards the 200gr is head and shoulders above the 150gr. And that's the lesson for the "most hunters [who] have never heard of BC". We should teach them instead of pretending it doesn't matter. Sure, I'm losing bullet weight in the animal but that lost bullet weight is causing damage to the animal. It's not a bad thing as long as you still get the penetration that you need.
If you're not interested in shooting that "far" (cough), you can use the same knowledge to reduce your recoil. Use a lower muzzle energy cartridge with a high BC bullet like the 6.5 Creedmoor with a 143 ELD-X. Believe it or not, at 200 yards it's only down 500 ft lbs compared to the 300 Win Mag 150gr TSX. That's less difference than the 150gr vs 200gr comparison. (At 500y, the Creedmoor has MORE energy than the 150gr 300 WM.)
Long story short: heavy for calibre bullets carry not only more energy but also more velocity at longer distances. And drift MUCH less in the wind. Or lets you shoot a lower velocity, lower recoil cartridge with the same results at the animal.
If I was going to use a Barnes, it would be an LRX, nice and heavy with decent BC. But it still has the disadvantage of less terminal damage and higher velocity threshold for full expansion. Yes, the Barnes is more reliable on tough shots and tough animals; it has its place, I've said that before. No, it's not the be-all, end-all hunting bullet.
I have just had great results with the lead core bullets that I use. I have had two different friends who decided to go with the premium barnes ammo. Unless they both ended up with ####ty 300 win mag and 338 lapua ammo which would be kind of rare. Both occasions the moose were relatively close, inside 200 yards. One moose was as if it was shot with FMJ with little expansion and multiple shots to take it down. The other moose similar story close range except the bullet never expanded whatsoever, even the polymer tip was intact and also took more shots than it should have. I know that second one doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless the velocity was WAY down but I did see the recovered bullet first hand, and it could have easily been reloaded. Likely an ammunition problem, more so than a bullet one, regardless.
So in short I don't have my own experiences, but a few from trusted friends. I have had great luck with many types of lead core bullets: Accubond, ballistic tip, ELD-X, Berger hunters, sierra game kings, even cheapo core-lokts. Primarily all on moose with the odd black bear. Not much will change my mind on this to desire more expensive bullets with lower BC's and iffy expansion. Ill take something that opens up a little more any day. Good shot placement broadside through the ribs and most drop in their tracks. Maybe different if was planning on trying to break the skulls or briskets of dangerous African game at close range or something I could see the benefits. Call that stubborn or what but that's my take, if it isn't broke don't fix it. But I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here that wouldn't shoot a 130LB deer with anything less than a copper solid going 3200FPS.
So in short I don't have my own experiences, but a few from trusted friends. I have had great luck with many types of lead core bullets: Accubond, ballistic tip, ELD-X, Berger hunters, sierra game kings, even cheapo core-lokts. Primarily all on moose with the odd black bear. Not much will change my mind on this to desire more expensive bullets with lower BC's and iffy expansion. Ill take something that opens up a little more any day. Good shot placement broadside through the ribs and most drop in their tracks. Maybe different if was planning on trying to break the skulls or briskets of dangerous African game at close range or something I could see the benefits. Call that stubborn or what but that's my take, if it isn't broke don't fix it. But I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here that wouldn't shoot a 130LB deer with anything less than a copper solid going 3200FPS.
I would like to add something to this posting but I can't because I'm a cheap bastard and all I use for deer are Hornady interlocks. I tested Speer, Sierra and Hornady bullets and recovered them from the berm and the Hornady bullets held together like a Nosler partition.
Here in Pennsylvania, the average deer is shot at 40 yards or less in the woods. And the Hornady interlocks will stay together and not come apart.
And my .303 Longbranch and 30-30 Winchester trapper model have taken deer using Hornady interlocks.
Here in Pennsylvania, the average deer is shot at 40 yards or less in the woods. And the Hornady interlocks will stay together and not come apart.
And my .303 Longbranch and 30-30 Winchester trapper model have taken deer using Hornady interlocks.
- Location
- Haliburton County, Central Ontario
LOL, time to change your avatar, Steve, if that's your attitude. Something facetious perhaps?
Sir Isaac Newton has already taught us that work requires the transfer of energy. No energy, no work. No transfer, no work.
Ole Newt’ never lost a lot of arguments..
