Alternative to SAGE for M14

Installing an Armstech TSA Mod 870 on an M14 stock

Preparation and Tools needed
The most important thing of course is a good quality stock, Chu wood just won’t do.(I use the Chus to practice on) A USGI fiberglass stock works great. It is strong, durable, easily painted and you won’t have to worry about bedding except at the heel of the receiver. USGI birch and walnut are excellent choices as well for those who want the wood look. While it is becoming increasingly difficult to get them from the US, there are still quite a few to be had. Cost for a good quality USGI Fiberglass is about $32 US and good wood ones anywhere from $35-$100 US.

Tools I use: Hacksaw, dremel tool, Prussian Blue or lipstick, sand paper, large flat head screwdriver, drill with various size bits and a countersink or forstner bit, either ½” or 9/16” depending on the size of the stock bolt you use. For permanent mounting a good strong epoxy or bedding compound is a must. I use Devcon but JB weld and Acraglass work great too.
Note: There really aren’t any precise measurements to go by except for the inletting. What may be 11/16” to me may be 5/8” or ¾” to someone else depending on how the adaptor is lined up when you go to scribe your cutting line.

Procedure
Now here is where the Chu wood stock comes in handy. Use it for practice before cutting up that USGI fiberglass stock you worked so hard to procure. Take that empty Chinese stock, put the trigger assembly in and line up the adaptor (pistol grip mounted) where you think it should be and at the angle you want. Scribe a line and then scribe another line about 1/16” back and cut along the second line. Remember it is better to cut off too little than too much. Now you can experiment with getting the angle just right and how close to the trigger assembly you want the grip to be. Keep in mind though that you want some good material left at the back of the receiver and that if the grip is too close it will interfere with the opening of the trigger guard.
At this point you can move on to the good stock or continue with Chairman Mao and practice inletting. The first time I did this I chose the latter cause I figured I might mess up. I did but not too much and it gave me an idea on how best to proceed. No matter which stock you use here is what I do.

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First you have to get an outline of the horse shoe shape on to the face of the area to be inletted. I tried Prussian Blue and lipstick and the grip just kept sliding all over the place giving me no readable outline. So I just sat at my desk stamping “PAID” on some accounts and voila. After cleaning the grip and face of the cut, I inked up the horse shoe, lined it up and pressed. Had my outline. Inletting with a dremel is self explanatory so I won’t go into detail. If you don’t have a dremel, small woodworking chisels would do the trick if you got’em. Just pay attention to the depth and outline and there shouldn’t be any problems.

The next step is drilling for the stock bolt. With the adaptor, minus the pistol grip, clamped in position, use a punch or a pencil in through the back of the adaptor to mark the location of the pilot hole. With the smallest bit you have drill straight through and into the receiver area.. Note the location of the exit hole. If it looks centered with enough room to drill a countersink you are good to go. Gradually increase the size of your bits to ream the hole until you reach the desired diameter of your stock bolt. I use a ¼” by 2 ¼” stove bolt, flat washer and lock washer. You can of course go larger but don’t forget, this is going to be epoxied (or not). With the stock bolt hole now drilled, you have to countersink the hole in the receiver area for the stock bolt nut and lock washer. Just go deep enough for the nut and washer. Almost there now.

Before you tighten and epoxy everything down, mount the pistol grip onto the adaptor and tighten into place on the stock, again with the trigger mech in position. Note any areas that have to be cleaned up with either sand paper, your dremel or a file. You might also take this opportunity to gently sand the edges of the cut so the stock blends nicely with the lines of the adaptor. Also make sure when the adaptor is tightened to the stock that the bolt does not protrude from the nut. If needed file or grind the bolt so that when tight it is flush with the outside of the nut.

Guess by now, after much cursing of the Turf, you are ready to cement if this is going to be a permanent installation. If not you are pretty much good to go with the AR stock of your choice. If you are going to epoxy you will have to work fast. Mix your goop, fill the stock bolt hole and face of the cut for the adaptor. Tighten the adaptor into place and fill in the hole with the nut and lock washer with epoxy. Tighten again before everything dries, making sure the adaptor is lined up properly. Wipe off excess on the outside of the stock and adaptor as per instructions and let cure. Once dry clean up the inside of the receiver area around the stock nut with your ever handy dremel. Use this method ONLY if you never plan to remove the adaptor. If you are planning on removing it at some point in time, DO NOT epoxy the cut face or stock bolt hole. Only do the hole for the nut and washer and use a release agent on the nut and bolt.
There you go. The first time I did it took maybe 3 - 3 1/2 hours. But then I had the Sparrowhawk to use as sort of a template to follow. Have fun guys, I did.:)

The MacMillan stock looks great. Before I became Sagerized I looked at it and the Troy but neither were available at the time. Oh well:( However, I wouldn't trade my Sages for Pam Anderson and her boat and video camera;)

 
BC_Guy said:

I talked to Rick at ATR about just that piece of kit.

"
I can get them , there are LOTS of options like M4 6 position butt or SOCOM 5 position butt, they can have 2 different rail assemblies both have 3 rails 1 top 1 each side Base model with 6 position butt, no rails is $875.00 add $275.00 for long rails, or $220.00 for short, add $100.00 for the SOCOM butt.
These need to be glass bedded they told me and are not a drop in"
 
Wow, seems like a lot to me considering I paid less than that for my grey Sage and it has rails coming out the ying yang with no bedding needed. To top it off there isn't even a scout mount and you have to send them your own hand guard for a matching paint job. Also looks like some ACE stocks and folding mechanism. For $875 for the base model I'd expect it hand delivered.
 
Turf said:
Wow, seems like a lot to me considering I paid less than that for my grey Sage and it has rails coming out the ying yang with no bedding needed. To top it off there isn't even a scout mount and you have to send them your own hand guard for a matching paint job. Also looks like some ACE stocks and folding mechanism. For $875 for the base model I'd expect it hand delivered.

Turf, may I ask how much you pay for a SAGE stock ?

BTW thx so much for the detailed procedure for the rem870 adapter. I'll certainly be considering it.
 
Turf said:
Sniper1, I paid $815 CDN + tax for the grey and $790 CDN + tax for the Desert Tan and another $300 for an Ironstone competition butt stock.

I was told that since its a stock designed for the military its hard to import Am I right? If so how could I import a model that uses AR15 stocks?
 
Not just for the military or so I'm told. Fulton calls them "Enhanced Accuracy Systems". Sounds a little more tame than "Enhanced Battle Rifle"
 
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Turf could you post a couple more pics of your rifle in the stock. I'm trying to get an idea of how much of a trigger "reach" there is. Also how do those adapters work on a shotgun considering how much drop they have in the stock?
thanks
 
Leonidas, let me answer your second question first. The Armstech adaptors are made specifically for shotguns. The Remington Mod 870 and the Mossberg series 500/590. The two are different in design specs and one won't fit the other properly. Because each of the adaptors is designed for shotguns the "drop" is comparable to that of the standard butt stock. When I put the Remi adaptor on my 870 and attached an M4 stock I really didn't notice much of a difference in the drop. This may be because I never paid much attention.

Unfortunately I can't take anymore pictures of the "Ugly Green Giant". Yesterday, after having pulled it all apart to take the pics of the adaptor itself, I decided to completely refinish the stock. Its on my bench right now waiting for another primer coat. When I put it together this time I am going to epoxy a different ATI setup on it. Oughta be interesting.

I did manage to find a couple of other pics that might give you a better idea of the trigger reach.

The Black Sparrowhawk has a Mossberg adaptor on it. Depending on the angle you mount it on the M14 stock, the trigger reach is quite comfortable for ANY size hand. The green one I made in the pic below it has a Remi 870 adaptor. The trigger reach on it would be comfortable for size 11 hands or larger. I would have used the Mossberg adaptor for my own build but I have a Remi 870 and a Remi 7600 Police 308. So it fits both of them and the M14 as well. Since I am a cheap SOB I figured why buy 3 adaptors? When one fits all.

All I can say is that any build you do takes some experimentation. practice on the Chu wood until you get the trigger reach you want and the drop you want. Use shims if you have to then scribe the angles and cut line on your good stock.

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I put a cheek rest on the black one eventually and it gave me a good sight line. Same with the green one. Like I said, the drop depends on the angle you mount the adaptor, as does the trigger reach. If you want a goood close trigger reach increase the angle of the cut toward the trigger guard and throw on a cheek rest to give a more than adequate sight line.

I will be doing another very soon. Actually 2 and I will take pics each step of the way and try to document everything in a more concise manner. But I sure hope I helped. I know my typing skills have improved dramatically:)

Turf
 
Well I bucked off my GI glass stock and inletted it but I didn't cut it close enough to the action (I can reach the trigger but not comfortably). So back to the chopping board. Hopefully I'll get the cut a bit more square this time.

Oh well, it's a learning process.

And I still think this should be a sticky.
 
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