Am I the worst shooter on the forum or the worst at story telling
- Thread starter blackburbot
- Start date
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
No kidding..."It shoots half inch groups", but not enough rounds down range to work up a decent load. That always brings the BS detector online. I'm ok with someone stating their rifle is 1/2 moa with the majority of the groups being 3/4 moa, in the hands of a better shot I'm confident my HBAR would do consistent 3/4" groups, it's a damn good day when I can string 5, 5 shot sub moa groups on one target regardless of the rifle.
Under excellent conditions my shooting partner and self can keep 5 shoots ~1/2moa and 10 shots <1moa at distances out to 1000 yards +.
It takes a lot of work though, bench grade ammo with ES < 10 ft/s, scopes that hold zero and adjust accurately, rifles bedded meticulously, all fasteners torqued correctly, copper equilibrium in the barrel in the happy zone, triggers that break consistently, oil free scope mounting, proper bench technique with a good rest and control of the rear bag.....plus a whole lot more.
At least a 5 hour practice session a week will get you there. As does quality components.
With all this you can still have a bad day.
It takes a lot of work though, bench grade ammo with ES < 10 ft/s, scopes that hold zero and adjust accurately, rifles bedded meticulously, all fasteners torqued correctly, copper equilibrium in the barrel in the happy zone, triggers that break consistently, oil free scope mounting, proper bench technique with a good rest and control of the rear bag.....plus a whole lot more.
At least a 5 hour practice session a week will get you there. As does quality components.
With all this you can still have a bad day.
The main thing that is not being talked about here is the amount of time (and money/dedication) it takes to shoot 1/2 MOA consistently.
Rifle cost is one thing, but ammo cost (even reloads I am thinking I am about $0.70 per), reloading equipment costs, reloading time, driving to the range (and gas cost), dry fire time, etc.
I shoot a lot compared to most folks 1,500-2,000 rds per year (still not as many as I want). The true pros out here are a whole extra level of dedication. Once you are shooting 5K+ rounds per year you have earned your half minute groups.
If you are waiting a couple months b/w each range trip and going to the store to buy whatever match ammo fits in your chamber the night before you go put 40 down the tube you are going to have to cherry pick those groups.
Rifle cost is one thing, but ammo cost (even reloads I am thinking I am about $0.70 per), reloading equipment costs, reloading time, driving to the range (and gas cost), dry fire time, etc.
I shoot a lot compared to most folks 1,500-2,000 rds per year (still not as many as I want). The true pros out here are a whole extra level of dedication. Once you are shooting 5K+ rounds per year you have earned your half minute groups.
If you are waiting a couple months b/w each range trip and going to the store to buy whatever match ammo fits in your chamber the night before you go put 40 down the tube you are going to have to cherry pick those groups.
I'm ok with someone stating their rifle is 1/2 moa with the majority of the groups being 3/4 moa, in the hands of a better shot I'm confident my HBAR would do consistent 3/4" groups, it's a damn good day when I can string 5, 5 shot sub moa groups on one target regardless of the rifle.
Lol, I've sold rifles that shot well shortly after buying them. The 300win I sold recently shot a few 3 shot 1/2moa groups at 100 yards, I shot steel boringly at 500 yards and then sold it not long after I got my 6.5 Creedmoor because it has very similar trajectory and uses half the powder.
Now I've done a 180 again and want a 300 Norma mag custom build (thanks Blackburbot, my bank account hates you) so I can quit wasting time with $1000 factory rifles and just build one that will do what I want and not need to spend a bunch of money on a Rem 700 action trying to make it do what a custom build can do.
That being said, old habits die hard and I just made a trade for a Rem 700 SFII Sendero in 7mm mag, lol.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Lol....ATR tweaked Rem700 LTR in a AICS chassis and way to much money into it. Lead sled, strapped down rifle. Like most I lie....it was closer to 3 then 2I know....I sux.
Strapped down...not only are you a fibber, but a cheater as well!
I have an SKS that shoots one hole groups at 100 yards all day long.
By the end of a whole day of shooting there is just one hole.
It takes 2000 rounds, the hole is 2 feet in diameter, but it's one hole.
I can do the same thing with my M+M M10X but that takes 4,000 rounds and the hole is 3 feet in diameter... on a good day.
By the end of a whole day of shooting there is just one hole.
It takes 2000 rounds, the hole is 2 feet in diameter, but it's one hole.
I can do the same thing with my M+M M10X but that takes 4,000 rounds and the hole is 3 feet in diameter... on a good day.
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Don't feel bad for what ever group a precision or factory rifle puts out.
I own 3 tack drivers that """Normally""" produce 4 minutes of Moose,,, on a good day I can tighten things up to a squarel nut at a 1000 yards.
Only thing is that it only happens once in a blue moon,,, I don't remember the last one little lone what cut line I parked my truck on... LOL...
I'm happy with 2" groups good enough for my hunting skills at 35 to 140 yards,,, that's not saying that I don't Grin when I see a group tighter than that.
Now days I shoot free hand standing up,,, this is where we see the difference between bears that poop in the bush brush and those that pretend they do.
Land cannon your rifle,,, this will show you if it's up to task,,, then go free hand to find out if you can match or exceed those expectations.
To place 200th in the top 1600 of shooters is one of the most rewarding challanges a human will experience,,, placing in the 5 or 800th is also worth self gratification.
That's not saying that ranking 1599 or 1600th is off the mark either.
To get excepted into the FB,,, is alot of work,,, let's not forget that most of these rifles produce a 1" to 1 1/2" groups.
I shoot F Class and part time TR,,, it's always been 10% tuned up rifle, optic, ammo """all in package""" to 90% human...
I spend my funds and time working on the larger factor of this that allows for the chances to see the most improvements.
Let's see,,, what's the old saying about this,,, oh yes,,, I remember...
Change 1 thing that will produce the largest improvement,,, follow up all of them from the best benefits to the least.
Once you get there,,, your 1/2 way there. LOL.
That last section is one tuff slugg fore sure.
Always more wrong then right. Ha
I own 3 tack drivers that """Normally""" produce 4 minutes of Moose,,, on a good day I can tighten things up to a squarel nut at a 1000 yards.
Only thing is that it only happens once in a blue moon,,, I don't remember the last one little lone what cut line I parked my truck on... LOL...
I'm happy with 2" groups good enough for my hunting skills at 35 to 140 yards,,, that's not saying that I don't Grin when I see a group tighter than that.
Now days I shoot free hand standing up,,, this is where we see the difference between bears that poop in the bush brush and those that pretend they do.
Land cannon your rifle,,, this will show you if it's up to task,,, then go free hand to find out if you can match or exceed those expectations.
To place 200th in the top 1600 of shooters is one of the most rewarding challanges a human will experience,,, placing in the 5 or 800th is also worth self gratification.
That's not saying that ranking 1599 or 1600th is off the mark either.
To get excepted into the FB,,, is alot of work,,, let's not forget that most of these rifles produce a 1" to 1 1/2" groups.
I shoot F Class and part time TR,,, it's always been 10% tuned up rifle, optic, ammo """all in package""" to 90% human...
I spend my funds and time working on the larger factor of this that allows for the chances to see the most improvements.
Let's see,,, what's the old saying about this,,, oh yes,,, I remember...
Change 1 thing that will produce the largest improvement,,, follow up all of them from the best benefits to the least.
Once you get there,,, your 1/2 way there. LOL.
That last section is one tuff slugg fore sure.
Always more wrong then right. Ha
Improved story-telling might help; as well as rationalizing away any shot that doesn't match the fantasy as being due to conditions. You can also defend the gun's honor by blaming yourself for every errant shot. That requires a certain level of self loathing, but might be worth it in saved time and money. Silver linings you know. 3 shot groups are a useful tool; even if they are just sort of a random number generator. An advanced technique is to declare it a under 1/2 MOA gun, and if the odd group goes over you can always say you meant under 1/2 MOA average.It's a great cover, because average is a better indicator anyway.
Under 1/2 MOA is tall order, but gets easier if you work with the goal instead of against it. Build a no compromise 13 1/2 pound Heavy Varmint bench rifle in some 6mm PPC variant, load accordingly and you'll likely find it wasn't very hard at all. A 18-22 pound F Class gun goes quite a ways to having a no alibi under 1/2 MOA shooter as well. It gets a lot harder when people decide that "This Is what I want, and this is how I want it." When you start out with compromises in form, you probably are going to accept some in function..
Under 1/2 MOA is tall order, but gets easier if you work with the goal instead of against it. Build a no compromise 13 1/2 pound Heavy Varmint bench rifle in some 6mm PPC variant, load accordingly and you'll likely find it wasn't very hard at all. A 18-22 pound F Class gun goes quite a ways to having a no alibi under 1/2 MOA shooter as well. It gets a lot harder when people decide that "This Is what I want, and this is how I want it." When you start out with compromises in form, you probably are going to accept some in function..
Yuppers,,, we always see the famous 3 or 5 shot groups,,, but once we stretch it out to 10 to 15,,, then its a different story.
This is not saying that it dosen't happen with smaller to mid recoil rifles,,, a Feather weigth rifle can pull this off to,,, but it would help if it's planted like a land canon.
More often then not,,, most rifles that are well tuned will out shoot their owner. I know my rifles kick my butt.
They beet me down in bypod mode and free hand more than I can remember.
I'll be as close to honest as I can,,, out of 7500 shots fired in 10 to 15 settings I """Normally""" see 1" to 1 1/2" MOA groups with a well planted 18 lb unit... To some people that's crappy shooting,,, to me that's pretty good odds from that much lead sent down range over a 1 year stint.
My factory hunting rifle looks more like 1 1/2" to 2 MOA since I don't get fancy with it because I limit my shots to 70 or 140 yards.
My free hand vertical rifle and sling groups range between 2 to 4 MOA,,, that's 8" of spread on a 12" pie plate at 200 yards,,, I think that's awesome being able to constantly pull this off out of 10 shot groups.
Shooting form is key in both shooting fore-matts,,, deffinatly key in free hand.
Lots of dry fire to keep memory going,,, planted standing form,,, and getting that sling to to slide into the 45 degree angle.
Some times I get better MOA then this in free hand,,, big Grin for sure,,, of course this dosen't happen after a 1 mile run at full speed. LOL... I'd be lucky to hit the side of a barn...
I don't care what other folks claim since I follow my lead only,,, that's what counts,,, that and a freezer full of food,,, I might be the worst shooter at the range,,, I make up for this by getting in there close... Its all about the hunt for me now days.
If I'm not able to get a clean shot at the critter,,, then the trigger dosen't get pulled. Fair game and chase I call it.
Land cannon the rifle,,, this proves its a shooter,,, except what it can do,,, divide by 2 then go hunting.
Oh Yha ��
This is not saying that it dosen't happen with smaller to mid recoil rifles,,, a Feather weigth rifle can pull this off to,,, but it would help if it's planted like a land canon.
More often then not,,, most rifles that are well tuned will out shoot their owner. I know my rifles kick my butt.
They beet me down in bypod mode and free hand more than I can remember.
I'll be as close to honest as I can,,, out of 7500 shots fired in 10 to 15 settings I """Normally""" see 1" to 1 1/2" MOA groups with a well planted 18 lb unit... To some people that's crappy shooting,,, to me that's pretty good odds from that much lead sent down range over a 1 year stint.
My factory hunting rifle looks more like 1 1/2" to 2 MOA since I don't get fancy with it because I limit my shots to 70 or 140 yards.
My free hand vertical rifle and sling groups range between 2 to 4 MOA,,, that's 8" of spread on a 12" pie plate at 200 yards,,, I think that's awesome being able to constantly pull this off out of 10 shot groups.
Shooting form is key in both shooting fore-matts,,, deffinatly key in free hand.
Lots of dry fire to keep memory going,,, planted standing form,,, and getting that sling to to slide into the 45 degree angle.
Some times I get better MOA then this in free hand,,, big Grin for sure,,, of course this dosen't happen after a 1 mile run at full speed. LOL... I'd be lucky to hit the side of a barn...
I don't care what other folks claim since I follow my lead only,,, that's what counts,,, that and a freezer full of food,,, I might be the worst shooter at the range,,, I make up for this by getting in there close... Its all about the hunt for me now days.
If I'm not able to get a clean shot at the critter,,, then the trigger dosen't get pulled. Fair game and chase I call it.
Land cannon the rifle,,, this proves its a shooter,,, except what it can do,,, divide by 2 then go hunting.
Oh Yha ��
I did this at 50 yards sighting in my 1961 marlin in 35 remington. Once it was sighted i stacked three on the bull. Im a noob however, So im not too sure if this is "bragable" material as everyone seems to use 100 yards as standard. Anyways ridicule or compliment away
For a 1961 Marlin I'd say that's really damn good.
Now for it to count you have to do 5 round groups and make at least 5 separate 5 round groups on the same target
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