American Precision Arms "Paragon"

thebigbully

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Have some good videos you might enjoy of a newly designed rifle my friend has created.

I got to see this rifle this spring at his shop and got the lowdown of these videos and what he is planning to do with it.

Although this is my friend, (and a very close one at that) I have talked to Hungry and Greentips and asked permission to link these to this forum.

I do not want to endorse, make sales or defend Jered's product.

I own 3 of his rifles, they were personally made for me and I enjoy them immensely, if you can ever catch up to me I would be more than happy to let you put a group or two downrange at distance as that's what they were designed for. And they do an EXCELLENT job at it. (plus it's nice to have a better shooter than me do them justice)

Just sharing the "precision" we all love!!!!!

Any questions or queries can be made to Jered at APA. Goggle is your friend.

Intro [youtube]aTTFoWO7Ql0[/youtube]

Destruction test #1 [youtube]JWsOw6Toc3s[/youtube]

Destruction test #2 [youtube]9G2dhAYcVY4[/youtube]
 
As a person who would be grateful just to own that scope that was tough to watch. Great test though and really shows a man who stands behind his product. The design of the magazine latch is perfect and the rings are certainly interesting.

BTW can anyone enlighten me on why a barrel with a more aggressive taper is better in terms of harmonics? not questioning what he's saying but id like to know the reasoning behind it. thanks.
 
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Broughton barrel, Defiance Action, Manners Stock, Huber trigger, AI mags. The only truly unique piece is the trigger guard mag release. It is a nice pice of kit, but it is entirely possible to create a near identical rifle with off the shelf components. Not knocking it, it is nicely done, but not truly unique.
 
I did enjoy seeing the drag through the grassy field. That was definitely a good way to show the durability of the stock and scope. Notice that the action was a bit stiff to open the first time? doubt it would survive living in a trench ala early 1900's.

Given that the barrel was cleaned between tests, the bore condition was retained.

So, we know the scope is robust and the manners stock is sound. However, you can duplicate the same result with most any modern action and ALL WWI and WWII bolt rifles (the wood stock may crack but the action will cycle and fire) and a good assortment of Eastern European semis.

Grab a Savage Axis and drag it through the weeds, and I bet it still functions just fine. It was a grass field - rocky gravel road would likely distroy any rifle including the test rifle. USO still uses glass in the scope and that is not rock proof.

Oh, when he was tosses the rifle onto the ground, did the trigger trip? He cycles the rifle instead of safety off, pull trigger as one might have to do if a rifle took a bad fall but still needed to function.

grab an enfield P action and hammer the rifle to destruction - that safety will not let go.

I am not trying to throw cold water on what he is trying to do but all of this was resolved a good long time ago.

As for the soak test in the lake, many a hunting rifle have been the in drink only to live to tell the tale. In fact there was a Leupold scope add from years back where a hunter retreived his rifle in the spring after the ice melted to find the scope still functioning just fine. Water is no longer a serious test of quality gear.

Take any quality scope and throw it into a sink full of water and leave it. I bet that most will survive just fine. I know my Sightrons did just fine being drenched in a Chilliwack downpour for 5 hours.

We have plenty of excellent ways to protect the metal from corrosion. I assume he dried the rifle before firing?

Nomex on :)

Jerry

PS, I am very impressed with the folding stock. That is a truly solid and well built product. hinge didn't let go and the comb didn't tear off. Nice.
 
Not trying to say its the holy grail here Jerry but an enfield might "function" but it won't group like that rifle on a good day. A savage axis might "function" but it's Tupperware stock won't be in one piece. I am not really a USO fan but take a sightron and pound some nails with it like USO does with theirs. Again I don't know if I would pay 7k for that rifle, and every rifle has limitations but give some credit where it is due without demeaning it by comparing it to a savage axis.
 
It looks like a very nice piece of kit; but I'd like to draw your attention to the speed of the drive/drag from 400m to the firing line. It took about 2minutes and 23 seconds by my rough count.
From the perspective of the video camera it seems like he's doing a pretty good clip; however the 400 meter sprint has been run, as in on foot, by a man in just under 48 seconds and a decent high school athlete will run it in about 1 minute. And last month a 96 year old man ran the 400 in 2 minutes and 38 seconds.
 
Not trying to say its the holy grail here Jerry but an enfield might "function" but it won't group like that rifle on a good day. A savage axis might "function" but it's Tupperware stock won't be in one piece. I am not really a USO fan but take a sightron and pound some nails with it like USO does with theirs. Again I don't know if I would pay 7k for that rifle, and every rifle has limitations but give some credit where it is due without demeaning it by comparing it to a savage axis.

I think you know that I am not the type of person that just beaks off. I have little doubt that the care and attention during assembly is excellent. The appearance and finish in the pics is very nice. Good parts are used so there is little reason to doubt the rifle will shoot.

BUT, there are many ways to reach the same destination. The videos are an attempt to illustrate a higher level of performance. I am saying that what is shown can be met by a wide range of rifles of all price points.

As to the accuracy of a Savage/Stevens or Axis, I think I and many others around the world have shown the potential of this action with a quality prefit barrel. You have seen my rifles shoots at very long distances so you know I am not blowing smoke. Matching the level of accuracy of the rifle in question, no problem. He isn't using a factory pipe and neither would I.

The soaking of the rifle in a lake for 30mins isn't going to hurt any commercial product today, even one with a walnut stock properly laquered. Certainly not one with a plastic fantastic stock. Scopes can leak but a quality product will not. Any steel used in a firearm with even the most basic of protection will stand up to 30mins underwater. I am sure the rifle was not shot soaking wet

USO, like yourself, not where I would spend my money but they are ruggedised for sure. For this type of application, S&B would get my money first. But a scope is independent of any rifle - put on what you like and what will do the job at hand.

Sightrons have never suggested their scopes are ruggedised - they are not but are plenty strong to stand up to the use of competitive shooting. Rattling behind a truck on a grassy field, nothing we would ever see at a competition.

So what's left, the plastic fantastic stock. Here I think we all mistake cheap for weak. The tensile strength of that material is very high. That flex we all dislike ensures the material has give and that absorbs a huge amount of abuse. Surface texture "plasticky", of course but that surface is far more resistant to abrasion then any gelcoat with or without an epoxy paint.

I have already indicated that I was impressed with the Manners stock especially the hinge and comb attachments. Not that the dragging through the field was particularly abusive but some stocks would fall apart or open. There was no sign of delamination which can happen with some composite stocks if the layers aren't bonded well. Making strong mounting points in a composite material is not easy and pulling out can happen unless the proper fittings are used. Manners looks to be using great hardware and properly designing their install.

So for me, these videos are more an endorsement of the stock then anything else.

The Defiance action is very well made BUT it is no more then a low tolerance Rem style action. In an environment where things can get dirty and mucky, the last thing I would want is a no tolerance receiver. You can already see in the video the action getting stiff to function after being dragged in grass. I wonder what would happen if fine sand was introduced? Low tolerance in the raceways is not what I would spec in a working rifle.

The comment of price equalling performance is how consumers judge the world. There is an assumption that things that cost more must perform better. For some things, that is entirely correct. For alot of stuff, not so much.

What we tend to pay for is appeal, appearance and prestige. "Like" can get very expensive and is entirely acceptable. If a $10K suit, handbag or watch is your thing, by all means. But a $35 Casio will tell the time just as well as a Rolex and if an accurate account of time is what you are after, there is a whole lot of "like" built into that Rolex price tag.

Jerry
 
I agree to point with what your saying. No I'm not spending 7k on just a rifle. An AI would probably go toe to toe in all the tests Jared is doing. But first off here is a guy, the builder who we know is "promoting" his stuff, no illusion there. I have a stevens actioned .223 in an aics chassis, factory savage barrel and shoots .5's. I have a surgeon in 6mm crusader that shoots .2's and .3's. I know the what the defiance actions are. Previously had a Nesika in .308 that shoot lights out as well but with Nesika, way to tight and had metal hardness issues. Hence the surgeon. Yes savage has shown their rifles an shoot but the next time your about to swap an axis into a better stock. Go attack it to something and hang from the stock?
Lets at least comparing apples to apples. Even a savage 10 in a choate. Will shoot great but won't take some of that abuse.

Again not saying that that rifle is the end all be all, and cnt be replicated for cheaper, but give it some credit. I am know your bit spouting off or saying its crap Jerry, I have more respect for you then that, but give the guy some credit. No harm in saying "wow, no chance I would spend 7k on a rifle without optics and I don't really prefer USO, but that's a decent rig that holds up pretty good".

Will instill shoot my Stevens/savage with hawke optics scope. Hell yes. Will I still shoot my surgeon custom with march scope. Hell yes. Will I look at people's budget and what the want/need to punch paper and blah blah blah....yes. Jared is promoting his stuff in a country of military, militia, contractors and Leo's who either want the bestest, toughest, and reliable and half of those guys either buy their duty rigs themselves or are given a budget and go out and buy what they want, so again no illusions about sales and marketing, but he's doing a good job and the rifles holding up. Would other rifles....yup. Would some fail....yup. Are many people or small gunsmiths willing to beat the crap out of rifles?.....I sure hope so. I would love to see Remington, savage, AI.....etc posting YouTube vids destroying stuff to see how it holds....

Just saying, here is a guy willing to put his product on the line....give him a test and he will do it....and the product holds up. It's what we ask for from companies....is it reliable, will it never break.

Can I take this geo tracker off road and stuff and do some hard core stuff.....sure it might do it and get you from point A to B, but a rubicon or hummer will do it backwards and you can still drive the family to church afterwords without visiting the shop wondering what has fallen off, or gone wrong.

So I am not saying your beaking but I also don't agree we should be compairing the paragon to a savage axis....just saying.

Good job to Jared building a solid piece of kit.
 
So the real question here is will the modern plastic fantastic dirt cheap rifles stand up to some of the use and abuse illustrated in his videos?

We don't need to prove the scope or accuracy cause that is already sorted out. The question is can a $350 rifle stand up to being dragged around and otherwise mistreated?

Will it break..... Sounds like a fun winter project.... and hunting season is over.

Jerry
 
I disagree that the scope accuracy thing has been disproven. Jared is selling a total package. Scope, rifle everything. Although a sightrons glass might be the same, hell even better than the USO, he is showing durability tests, so yeah, sounds like a great project that I would love to see. Take an axis and throw a sightron on it and beat the crap out of the package....you an even do the same tests.....

And I agree that most scopes can handle the rattling of riding in a truck or wouldn't see any of that type of abuse in competition....yes we all like to compete and lots of people in the US will buy one to compete as well but who says his intended market is competition tactical bench rest shooters. The tactical rifle comps in the states are a little different then up here. They run and gun, climb, stuff gets dropped, banged.....maybe even falls out if a. Helicopter....yes the shoot bolt guns from heli's.

So I am all for watching a savage axis and a sightron go through the tests and hold 1/4 to 1/2 minute out to 400.
 
Sightron as illustrated earlier will never handle the abuse. For range use and hunting, no problem. For being bashed around, not a hope. It is not ruggedised and not sold as such.

There are scopes sold as ruggedised and I have little reason to doubt their claims. Besides, I have little point in bashing on a $3K scope. And any scope can be transfered regardless of the rifle so if the need is for a rugged scope, just put on one designed for that environment.

For the rifle part, the concern is of course mechanical failure. The thing just falls apart rendering it useless. Bolt handles are of course the most vulnerable part of an action. Next would be the stock.

A loss of functioning so it is unable to feed and eject rds. The receiver gets clogged with dirt so can't move. Rudimentary clearing should bring the receiver back into function.

The next would be a loss of accuracy vs non abused/normal useage. Unless the barrel is bent or dirt is in the bore during discharge, I see this as being the least affected. Barreled actions are durable by design

Another area would be unintended discharge. Does the safeties still work while being knocked about?

Will not bother with a dip test cause corrosion is easily controlled nowadays.

So I will see what I can do in the coming winter.

As for LR accuracy, he may have posted his accuracy in other videos but in the ones here, he is just smacking a large gong so will do the same in my tests. Just compare a before and after.

See if the snow will let me get into my area for some LR fun....

Jerry
 
The ruggedness of a Sightron might surprise you. 3 years ago I had an M-98 Mauser fall off my motorcycle when I was doing about 80km/h down a haul-road. The LimbSaver recoil pad, the sling and the front (iron) sight were pretty wrecked but the gun itself and the Bushnell Banner (3x9x-56) on a Ken Farrell mount were still functional. The scope needed a little adjustment (good thing I bring the bore-sighter along and a pic of what the sight picture looks like after its sighted-in), but it still works just fine. (it was wearing Butler Creek lens covers).
The scope moved to my daughter's .22 and still holds zero.


I'm actually pretty sure that the Sightron would survive the jog/drag for 400 metres.
 
Maybe but I don't feel like the investment to find out. It is not sold as a ruggedised product so a sample of 1 doesn't prove anything.

Modern day scopes are durable by nature - being shaken around by BMG's and magnums is alot of G's. But the internals are designed for longitudinal forces. When you beat on something, you impose lateral forces and the scope may or may not cope.

The USOs now use the same alloy to make their tubes but these are likely quite a bit thicker given their weight. The lenses are glass so are neither good nor bad. In the entire weapons system, the scope lense is likely the weak link.

The Sightron knobs are not hardened and only light alloy. These catch on anything and they will tear off - small allen screws aren't very robust for those type of forces. Plenty strong for shooting forces. Caps will help for sure but that is not typical for this gendre of products.

As for the internals, given how much lighter the sightrons are, materials used can't be as robust. Again, plenty strong for shooting but not designed to be used as a secondary weapon or construction device.

There are plenty of ruggedised scopes in the world but very few shooters that will actually need that level of durability.

If you want to beat on something, USO wins. If you want to see something, well, that is a completely different debate.

The axis is likely to survive nicely under the tests shown. At worst, a few simple parts get replaced... easy.

What I am looking forward to is finding out is how well that mag stays in the stock. simple crude latch. I wonder what will happen....

I didn't notice if he dragged the rifle with a mag in the action?
Jerry
 
Well I hope that boy makes a million $$$$. I wonder how that puppy shoots off hand? I dunno why but I love the idea of a tactical rifle going into the hunting camp too. I went to the website but didn't see that folding stock. Wonder how much that is...?
 
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