Ammo Recoil And You...Where Are You On This Recoil Table?

Bought a 338WM off nowarningshot, 250gr are pretty angry, 225gr was a surprise, seemed much less.....problem is I've got 4 boxes of the 250gr...lol
The 458WM with factory ported BSA is actually not bad, 50bmg I used to have was intimidating but a pleasant shooter once I got used to it.
The only one I've shot off a bench is the 5 OH. Did 3 rounds with the 338 & switched to the sticks.
 
Recoil is also cumulative, I’ve not shot too many guns I thought the recoil was overly excessive just based on the first shot. It’s not till you’ve shot a box or two of rounds that your shoulder gets sore. Learned this the hard way when I started shooting trap with a single-shot 12ga, was ok for the first few shots but I was flinching pretty bad after about 10 shots.

Gun weight, buttpads and porting also make a world of difference in recoil. I can bench shoot my ported 338 Win Mag all day, but I wouldn’t dare put a 3” turkey load in that single-shot 12ga.

I’m not a big guy at all, maybe 5’7” 150lbs at best.
 
Centerfire rifles I own and shoot regularly, all bolt action no brake, in order from highest to lowest recoil are: 30-06, in a medium weight hunting rifle; 270 Win in a very light hunting rifle; and 260 Rem in a heavy varmint rifle with big heavy scope. These are nowhere near the big heavy recoiling calibers, but I offer some observations. I am 5'4" 150 lb's, not a big guy.

Benchrest supported shooting style vs prone with bipod:

Benchrest:
I don't have any issues shooting these from the bench, with front rest or bipod, and rear bag full rifle support. In fact I love to shoot from the bench. The full support allows for a free or semi-free recoil technique like I see the benchrest competitors use. I use the semi-free recoil technique with a soft shoulder pressure and soft cheek pressure, and just let the rifle recoil, but under some control. "Some control" means my body has to absorb some of the force, but alot of it seems to be absorbed through the rifle's friction on the bags or bipod feet.

I concentrate on technique that results in straight back recoil like skilled benchrest shooters use. With my hunting rifles I never achieve perfect straight back recoil, but by working towards it I think it makes a huge difference in managing felt recoil. A sign that recoil is better managed is less muzzle rise, and less torque to the right. Without a brake on these calibers its almost impossible to maintain sight picture, but every once in a while the "perfect recoil" is achieved where sight picture is maintained. That is a great feeling when you can see the hit on target.

However after about 15 to 20 rounds, shooting slowly and single loading, I do notice a flinch coming on. I think its more about the blast concussion wave that travels through my head, even though I am doubled up with ear plugs and muffs. I have to work on controlling the flinch, so its a major mental game. On cold days I wear a fleece and jacket parka hood and fleece hood over my muffs, and that definitely makes shooting more pleasant. Felt blast concussion from nearby benches with parka hood up is also reduced. So my hypothesis is that blast concussion is significant in perceived discomfort. (One day, please God, allow Canadians to own and use suppressors like civilized countries do, please...)

Prone:
Shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag is a very different shoulder angle for me. The rifle is fully supported but the recoil can be painful, and I have come back home with bruised shoulder after only about 30 rounds. Something about that prone position angle of recoil to my shoulder that causes the issue.

Unsupported:
I need to practice classic positional shooting (standing, kneeling, sitting, prone) unsupported except for sling. Managing recoil, having to hold the rifle strongly and with full cheek pressure is going to be a different result. I am guessing that some bruising may be in my future as I take up positional shooting.

As a younger man I played several full contact sports where cuts and bruises and pain were normal, and we went back for more. So maybe that training will see me through the shooting sports of managing heavy recoil.
 
Recoil is almost completely in your head. If it wasn't then how would anyone ever get used to it? Nobody grows armor plating after a few years, and although its a fun joke nobody ever grew a shoulder callus. All that happens is that one day, your brain finally registers that recoil isn't a big deal. That's because it never was a big deal, the only thing that changed was your perception. Come on; most rifles barely have enough recoil to bounce on a sand bag, but the shooter reports a near death experience? :) You probably slap the steering wheel harder when Shania Twain comes on the radio. :)

A 45/75 is a pop-gun. A .300 is a nice little rifle. A .375 is an oddly pleasant thing to shoot and a .458 is a riot. A rifle isn't going to beat you up without your permission.
 
Dogleg gets it... couldn't have put it better. Soon someone will be along and take personal offence and invariably say " I am smarter now..." in reference to their newest gun that does not recoil.
There are exceptions at both ends of the scale to make things fun of course.
 
Dogleg said:
Recoil is almost completely in your head. If it wasn't then how would anyone ever get used to it? Nobody grows armor plating after a few years, and although its a fun joke nobody ever grew a shoulder callus. All that happens is that one day, your brain finally registers that recoil isn't a big deal. That's because it never was a big deal, the only thing that changed was your perception. Come on; most rifles barely have enough recoil to bounce on a sand bag, but the shooter reports a near death experience? :) You probably slap the steering wheel harder when Shania Twain comes on the radio. :)

A 45/75 is a pop-gun. A .300 is a nice little rifle. A .375 is an oddly pleasant thing to shoot and a .458 is a riot. A rifle isn't going to beat you up without your permission.
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This is a good point. To illustrate, I recently shot my new Mossberg 590 Shockwave. I didn't sense any recoil. My daughter filmed / video recorded me shooting it and in shooting it you can see some recoil in my wrists, even with low recoil loads. I think I probably didn't sense it because I was too busy yelling "yaaaah, baby!" as I was blasting away pop cans and water bottles that we set up. So probably the fun I had in shooting it displaced the reality that there was still some recoil, as evidenced by the video evidence.

All that being said, being a shorter and lighter person, physics would dictate that I would be affected more acutely with any recoil than someone who is bigger and heavier. I agree that just like anything else, with repetition one can be accustomed to it, just like lifting weights or running long distances.

I love the Shania Twain reference. Brings back memories of 1995 for me...
 
The biggest factor in recoil in my opinion is stock design and fit. I’ve shot 30-06’s that beat the hell out of me yet I own and shoot a 505 Gibbs that I find not to bad.
 
I went right to .444, that's my 'biggest' caliber and i love it. I have a number of pet loads for it including some fun lobs that don't kick so bad. Even when shooting it hot i consider the recoil 'fun'. I have a 4198 load with a 300gn pill that is a beast; some of them that missed the steel I think are still going. I shot 50 of them in a session a few weeks ago and felt it, but loved it. I'd say the gun has a considerable say in the felt recoil. The gun I'd say kicks the hardest in my collection is the .303 jungle carbine. I love the gun but it's just ornery.
 
Recoil is more than just physical pain or an individuals psychological aversion to the effect of firing a gun. I read posts on many gun sites with nonsense like ".308 has zero recoil". Movement from recoil exists with almost any firearm and it limits your rate of fire and your ability to make accurate followup shots. I think excess recoil always exists to the extent that you are physically able to reset and squeeze a trigger faster than you can re-acquire correct sight picture on a target for a rapid followup shot from a given position/stance at a given distance.
 
My 2 cents, I'm not a big guy either and found the rifle stock to be more of a determining factor as to felt recoil. My hunting rifle was a Parker Hale 300 Win Mag and it was ok. A day on the range working up a new load was ok. If l did it 2 days in a row l was bruised up pretty good. I had a BSA 270 Win for a short time that was a "Punisher" l also had a Sako 375 H+H that l loved. I could shoot that all day. My conclusion was that a Big guy will absorb all the recoil where as a lighter guy will move with the gun and not feel the recoil as much. Then again maybe I'm full of it.:shotgun::
 
“The gazelle” you remind me a bit of me when I was younger. I grew up extremely slender. We’re talking 5’11” and 110 lbs. I had some bad experiences with recoil as a kid and it haunted me. I can tell you’re quite fearful and I have memories of being the same way.

As an older man, now about 180lbs I don’t mind recoil at all. From my experience, neither recoil nor noise is heard when you have a big game animal in your sights.

At the range, I’m comfortable shooting 30’06, 270, 7mm-08 as much as I please. In fact, I owned a vanguard in 300wm for a while which I found tolerable from the bench.

So what changed for me? Was it just my mass? No. It was 99% mental with 1% technique. The way you’ve described your fear of what a 45-70 would do to you, and your dread at anticipating the shot tells me you need to work on that 99%. When I hear someone complain about the scope touching their face, I know there’s a major fundamental problem.

Really, if you do figure out that 1%, it will make the 99% easier.

The rifle won’t hurt you. People who talk about sore shoulders aren’t shooting correctly. The butt of the rifle should reside between the clavical and the shoulder. Feel the soft pocket between. That’s the spot! If you feel it on the shoulder, you’re holding it wrong. You want the rifle to be pulled into the pocket firmly so that it doesn’t have a chance to run up on you. You want it to push you, not punch you. Although you’re holding the rifle firmly against you, be relaxed and free to move. When the rifle moves backwards, your upper body should move freely with it. That’s key. Lastly, RELAX. It’s fun and it won’t hurt you. If the rifle is already pulled into the pocket and your body is free to rock backwards with the recoil, the scope can never hurt you.

I would suggest avoiding the bench for a while. Shoot from standing, leaning your upper body forward into the rifle so that as it recoils your torso rocks back into an upright position rather than leaning backwards. Get some practice sitting with one knee up and your forward elbow on that knee supporting the fore stock. Again, don’t be afraid of the rifle but rather lean into it. Hold it firmly into that pocket and stay relaxed and loose.

Keep your cheek pressed firmly (yet relaxed) against the buttstock. Again, you’re looking for a push not a punch. Keep your mouth closed and make sure your teeth aren’t apart.

Consider some reduced recoil loads.

Consider using a PAST recoil pad. I own one though it doesn’t see use anymore. It had its purpose for me at one time.

Layer up! When I’m hunting in late fall im northern Alberta you can believe I’ll be wearing layers. So guess how I practice? In a t-shirt? Nope. Layers and a jacket. It helps a lot, actually.

Consider a heavier rifle. A weatherby vanguard with a 24”bbl has less felt recoil than a tikka.

Please consider trying some of these techniques. They all fall under the 1% category but if you can get that sorted out, the 99% mental issue will come along nicely once you realize you’re shooting and having fun without being hurt. You will soon forget about recoil.

If you do practice from these common field positions (recommend against prone for now) you will likely find that you’re a far better rifleman than most. There are no benches in the field.

Maybe my advice is worth what you pay for it, but in this case I think you may find it helpful.
 
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ALBERTA BOY said:
“The gazelle” you remind me a bit of me when I was younger. I grew up extremely slender. We’re talking 5’11” and 110 lbs. I had some bad experiences with recoil as a kid and it haunted me. I can tell you’re quite fearful and I have memories of being the same way.

As an older man, now about 180lbs I don’t mind recoil at all. From my experience, neither recoil nor noise is heard when you have a big game animal in your sights.

At the range, I’m comfortable shooting 30’06, 270, 7mm-08 as much as I please. In fact, I owned a vanguard in 300wm for a while which I found tolerable from the bench.

So what changed for me? Was it just my mass? No. It was 99% mental with 1% technique. The way you’ve described your fear of what a 45-70 would do to you, and your dread at anticipating the shot tells me you need to work on that 99%. When I hear someone complain about the scope touching their face, I know there’s a major fundamental problem.

Really, if you do figure out that 1%, it will make the 99% easier.

The rifle won’t hurt you. People who talk about sore shoulders aren’t shooting correctly. The butt of the rifle should reside between the clavical and the shoulder. Feel the soft pocket between. That’s the spot! If you feel it on the shoulder, you’re holding it wrong. You want the rifle to be pulled into the pocket firmly so that it doesn’t have a chance to run up on you. You want it to push you, not punch you. Although you’re holding the rifle firmly against you, be relaxed and free to move. When the rifle moves backwards, your upper body should move freely with it. That’s key. Lastly, RELAX. It’s fun and it won’t hurt you. If the rifle is already pulled into the pocket and your body is free to rock backwards with the recoil, the scope can never hurt you.

I would suggest avoiding the bench for a while. Shoot from standing, leaning your upper body forward into the rifle so that as it recoils your torso rocks back into an upright position rather than leaning backwards. Get some practice sitting with one knee up and your forward elbow on that knee supporting the fore stock. Again, don’t be afraid of the rifle but rather lean into it. Hold it firmly into that pocket and stay relaxed and loose.

Keep your cheek pressed firmly (yet relaxed) against the buttstock. Again, you’re looking for a push not a punch. Keep your mouth closed and make sure your teeth aren’t apart.

Consider some reduced recoil loads.

Consider using a PAST recoil pad. I own one though it doesn’t see use anymore. It had its purpose for me at one time.

Layer up! When I’m hunting in late fall im northern Alberta you can believe I’ll be wearing layers. So guess how I practice? In a t-shirt? Nope. Layers and a jacket. It helps a lot, actually.

Consider a heavier rifle. A weatherby vanguard with a 24”bbl has less felt recoil than a tikka.

Please consider trying some of these techniques. They all fall under the 1% category but if you can get that sorted out, the 99% mental issue will come along nicely once you realize you’re shooting and having fun without being hurt. You will soon forget about recoil.

If you do practice from these common field positions (recommend against prone for now) you will likely find that you’re a far better rifleman than most. There are no benches in the field.

Maybe my advice is worth what you pay for it, but in this case I think you may find it helpful.
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Thank you very much for this thoughtful, informative post.

I should probably provide somewhat of an update since I originally posted this two months ago.

Later in April, I actually ended up buying a 12 gauge shotgun - a 590 Shockwave SPX and it was partly due to the fact that it was on sale (I am as sucker for sales) as well as based on a number of comments here about recoil being in the head - I do agree with this now. Just like most things, one's bad experience may tend to cloud their willingness to do something again in the future whereas someone else would have no problem with it (rollercoasters, heights, etc.)

I did take steps to mitigate recoil - I got an Opsol adapter for my 590, and got Aguila and Federal Minshells/Shortys in the lightest birdshot I could find. With all that, I took the Shockwave out to shoot several times last month, three times with two of my kids (individually).

The short shells made a big difference. I had my 590 on the Raptor grip (which many people suggested I remove and replace, and I did buy a full stock with big buttpad from a CGNer here too). But I have to say, with that Raptor grip and those mini shells, it was a hoot. My adult son, who is significantly bigger than me, must have inherited my recoil adverse genes, as he shot it and said he would stick with the bolt action .22 he was shooting.

My daughter, barely a teenager and barely shorter than me had this "bring it on" attitude and shot the 590 and said "is this all there is to it?" I do believe there is a mental part of this, because once she said that, for some strange reason what recoil was there when I used it felt even less (no doubt psychologically not wanting to be shown up by one's kid). In the end, it was an extremely positive experience and when I moved to the regular 2 3/4" 1 oz rounds, there was more recoil but it was manageable. At the very least I could always move back to the minishells if needed (since I bought 4 cases of them...lol).

Progress is good and I am pleased to report that I took the plunge yesterday, went to my LGS and bough a number of packs of #4 buck in regular size 2 3/4". That will be fun to try out on my next outing.

Thank you all for your feedback and comments.
 
Cool. That 1oz load (if it’s a game load) has about the same recoil energy as a 270 130gr. Less recoil velocity though. If you’re comfortable with that, get yourself a nice heavy rifle like the vanguard and be happy. 7mm-08 for slightly less still.

I have experience with the weatherby vanguard “first light” model. It’s still available and has a removable muzzle brake. Turns the 270win into about 9lbs of recoil.

That shotgun is an extremely odd choice for someone recoil averse. You may consider a mossberg 835 ultimag. It has a full length waterfowl barrel (extra weight will help you), a nice recoil pad and importantly a gas operated semi auto action which also soaks up recoil and reduces the velocity of the recoil pulse.
 
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ALBERTA BOY said:
Cool. That 1oz load (if it’s a game load) has about the same recoil energy as a 270 130gr. Less recoil velocity though. If you’re comfortable with that, get yourself a nice heavy rifle like the vanguard and be happy. 7mm-08 for slightly less still.

I have experience with the weatherby vanguard “first light” model. It’s still available and has a removable muzzle brake. Turns the 270win into about 9lbs of recoil.

That shotgun is an extremely odd choice for someone recoil averse. You may consider a mossberg 835 ultimag. It has a full length waterfowl barrel (extra weight will help you), a nice recoil pad and importantly a gas operated semi auto action which also soaks up recoil and reduces the velocity of the recoil pulse.
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Yup I totally understand. Shorter shotgun, raptor grip - I must have been asking for trouble. But the gun was on sale, and I always wanted to give 12ga another try. That being said, the Shorty and Minishells are very helpful. Moving up from there wasn't bad.

I actually wonder whether my friend who let me shoot his 12ga all those years ago didn't have a 3 1/2" Magnum round in there or something. I was also new to shooting all that time ago. I now see my son, who is much bigger than me complain about sore shoulder after shooting a .40 S&W PCC (Keltec Sub2K G2) with really no buttpad - I had no problems with it because I have shot it tons of times and maybe am just used to it.

True about the semi-autos...lots of people have suggested I should have gotten a Benelli MR1 or M4 or something similar. I guess I was just used to the pump action that was my 870 20ga. Love the Mossberg though. May still get that Benelli since I have heard they are amazing guns.
 
I'm 6'3, 220 lbs, and have shot a crapload of guns under the sun. I don't like anything more than .308 in a lightweight rifle. I have shot a 700 ADL in 308 that shook me bad lol. I've also shot magnums and some punishing shotgun loads. 7.62x39, .22LR, 12ga, and .308 in a heavier rifle are my calibers of choice.
 
p.Rundle said:
I'm 6'3, 220 lbs, and have shot a crapload of guns under the sun. I don't like anything more than .308 in a lightweight rifle. I have shot a 700 ADL in 308 that shook me bad lol. I've also shot magnums and some punishing shotgun loads. 7.62x39, .22LR, 12ga, and .308 in a heavier rifle are my calibers of choice.
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What you're describing isn't unusual for a tall fellow, with a long neck.

I'm about 6 inches shorter than you are, with a thick neck and I can't handle heavy recoil either, but I'm not as sensitive as you are.

I'm lucky in that most rifles are built for people with my stature. Very short people or people over six feet often have issue with their rifles not fitting them properly.
 
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