ammo situation worsening.... and worsening..... and worsening ....... May 5, updated

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Shortage? There isnt one. Look on all the reseller sites or gun shows there is hundreds of thousands of rounds for sale. These dicks are buying everything they can and selling it privately for 3-5x the price they paid. When someone goes in and buys the store out of ammo to resell of coarse there will seem to be a shortage. When people stop paying these stupid prices for privately sold ammo then the "shortages" will stop. In the words of many internet videos "stop buying from these guys and make them eat all the ammo they are buying". Its just gun owners ripping off other gun owners.
 
How much powder and ball did the Minutemen carry? I am sure it was not pounds of powder and hundreds of balls. Americans are thinking it is the Revolution all over again but I suspect should that happen most would flee if they were able to Canada.
So, I am sure they do not need the ten lifetimes worth of ammo they wish to collect.
It is an interesting situation though. Ammunition manufacturers and those selling the product must enjoy and profit from this greatly.
 
Teapot said:
How much powder and ball did the Minutemen carry? I am sure it was not pounds of powder and hundreds of balls. Americans are thinking it is the Revolution all over again but I suspect should that happen most would flee if they were able to Canada.
So, I am sure they do not need the ten lifetimes worth of ammo they wish to collect.
It is an interesting situation though. Ammunition manufacturers and those selling the product must enjoy and profit from this greatly.
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I really doubt the average person caught up in this buying frenzy actually believes a revolution is anywhere on the horizon, and is thus not buying for that end.

As alluded to earlier, the "shortage" is an artificial creation with plenty of supply coming out at full tilt. No factory shut down, burnt down, or stopped selling, and with the wars winding down in the middle east, the factories making ammunition for the military are able to devote more capacity to civilian demand.

So it is demand driving the market.

Allot of that demand is simply people thinking there is a shortage and wanting to stock up in case of a ban, and others taking advantage of that perception and hoarding to sell to those others at huge mark ups.

The same is happening with firearms and magazines.

Nobody sane is stocking up for a "revolution" right now.
 
hometownhero said:
Shortage? There isnt one. Look on all the reseller sites or gun shows there is hundreds of thousands of rounds for sale. These dicks are buying everything they can and selling it privately for 3-5x the price they paid. When someone goes in and buys the store out of ammo to resell of coarse there will seem to be a shortage. When people stop paying these stupid prices for privately sold ammo then the "shortages" will stop. In the words of many internet videos "stop buying from these guys and make them eat all the ammo they are buying". Its just gun owners ripping off other gun owners.
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How is that ripping them off? Obviously willing, informed buyers paid a mutually agreed upon price to willing sellers. That's called a free market transaction, not "ripping someone off."

Ripping someone off is when sellers force or defraud buyers to pay a price for something against their will or by lying to them to gain their consent to the purchase (i.e. - every service the government provides).

If I was in the US and I saw an opportunity to make a huge profit by flipping guns and ammo, I'd be all over it. If someone was willing to buy my .223 for $2/round, our transaction would look like this:

Buyer: "I want to buy your .223 for $2/round, will you sell it to me?"
Me: "Yes - I'll give you 1000 rounds for $2000"
Buyer: "Agreed!"

How would any of that be unethical?

I think it would be dumb and immoral NOT to. Price fixing and market manipulations of anything are for fascists and communists.
 
You guys forget some market dynamics. It used to be that manufacturers could keep up with demand, the market was stable. things have changed. The U.S. Feds are now buying like they have never bought before, so that cuts into ordinary supply, ad to that all the new buyers in the U.S. There are MANY new buyers who have never bought a rifle or handgun before, these folks need ammo. The ammo market litteraly tripled overnight, which means the manufacturers need to triple production to meet current demand, which they simply cannot do. Now, ad to the mix, buyers who have been users for many years, getting a little scared to they double up, not hoard just double up, that alone, means manufacturs have to double production to meet existing demand. This is not a little deal, where a few hoarders have caused a shortage, its a real shortage that will take time to sort out, and a lot of time, think a few years. this won't settle down overnight.
 
dizzy said:
You guys forget some market dynamics. It used to be that manufacturers could keep up with demand, the market was stable. things have changed. The U.S. Feds are now buying like they have never bought before, so that cuts into ordinary supply, ad to that all the new buyers in the U.S. There are MANY new buyers who have never bought a rifle or handgun before, these folks need ammo. The ammo market litteraly tripled overnight, which means the manufacturers need to triple production to meet current demand, which they simply cannot do. Now, ad to the mix, buyers who have been users for many years, getting a little scared to they double up, not hoard just double up, that alone, means manufacturs have to double production to meet existing demand. This is not a little deal, where a few hoarders have caused a shortage, its a real shortage that will take time to sort out, and a lot of time, think a few years. this won't settle down overnight.
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Agreed - but in other words don't expect ammo prices to come down anytime soon.
 
critter928 said:
I really doubt the average person caught up in this buying frenzy actually believes a revolution is anywhere on the horizon, and is thus not buying for that end.

As alluded to earlier, the "shortage" is an artificial creation with plenty of supply coming out at full tilt. No factory shut down, burnt down, or stopped selling, and with the wars winding down in the middle east, the factories making ammunition for the military are able to devote more capacity to civilian demand.

So it is demand driving the market.

Allot of that demand is simply people thinking there is a shortage and wanting to stock up in case of a ban, and others taking advantage of that perception and hoarding to sell to those others at huge mark ups.

The same is happening with firearms and magazines.

Nobody sane is stocking up for a "revolution" right now.
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So are you insinuating that people involved in a revolution would actually be sane? ;)
 
6-8 months once the rush is over the market will be flooded.

As it stands I could easily buy a lifetimes supply of .22LR ammo if I went and bought out the one small gun store, Wally World, and Canadian Tire in my small Central Ontario town. Im not really all that concerned.

As an aside, my CT had American Eagle 38gr hollow point 50 rd boxes on sale for $1.39. Might want to check yours out too
 
I dunno, but around here (GTA), there was definitely a bit of a drought around late Jan, early to mid Feb., but in the last couple of weeks, I've been able to get whatever i was after at regular prices at my regular LeBarons & SAIL stores - no problem with Wildcat or Blazer .22, or PowerPoint .308 150gr, all of which were unavailable for a while there. Maybe things aren't as bad as we keep hearing?
 
harbl_the_cat said:
Buyer: "I want to buy your .223 for $2/round, will you sell it to me?"
Me: "Yes - I'll give you 1000 rounds for $2000"
Buyer: "Agreed!"
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The problem is that's not what's happening. It's more along the lines of:

Seller: buys out local gunshop of all .223 they have for $10/box
Buyer: Goes to gunshop to buy three boxes of .223 but there's none left
Seller: "I have .223 for $50/box! Get it now because look at the shelves, there's no more available and Obama is going to BAN IT!"
Buyer: "Dammit. I guess you're right. Fine I'll take one box."

Are you saying it's ethical to artificially create demand based on panic and speculation? I suppose you enjoy paying $1.30/L for gasoline too because that market works the exact same way. All hail capitalism...

As for ammo in my area, I've never seen the shelves stocked so well. Absolutely nothing is out of stock, even American Eagle black box .223 and bulk .22 LR. I just picked up a case of 7.62x39 for $0.139 per round. If there's a shortage on, it ain't around here.
 
AK said:
The problem is that's not what's happening. It's more along the lines of:

Seller: buys out local gunshop of all .223 they have for $10/box
Buyer: Goes to gunshop to buy three boxes of .223 but there's none left
Seller: "I have .223 for $50/box! Get it now because look at the shelves, there's no more available and Obama is going to BAN IT!"
Buyer: "Dammit. I guess you're right. Fine I'll take one box."

Are you saying it's ethical to artificially create demand based on panic and speculation? I suppose you enjoy paying $1.30/L for gasoline too because that market works the exact same way. All hail capitalism...

As for ammo in my area, I've never seen the shelves stocked so well. Absolutely nothing is out of stock, even American Eagle black box .223 and bulk .22 LR. I just picked up a case of 7.62x39 for $0.139 per round. If there's a shortage on, it ain't around here.
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Thats exactly what I am getting at.
 
Fender57 said:
From the articles I have read regarding ammunition supplies in the U.S. it appears that hoarders and speculators are the culprits. Walmart USA has a three box limit per day. Aside from the hoarders there are small time operators who are recruiting family and friends and basically anyone they can find whether they own guns or not to wait in line at the sports counter in as many Walmart locations as possible to purchase their daily allotment.

This ammunition is then sold for a quick profit to anyone who is desperate enough to buy it or listed on sites such as Armslist
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Yup, I never see cops buying their rounds at Wal Mart. I think hoarders like me have created the shortage for sure.
 
The free market hoarders are the real problem.. 50 dollar pmags 500 dollar bcgs just awesome. Karma will get them as for now ill just burn trough some of my reloads
 
skip1600 said:
The free market hoarders are the real problem.. 50 dollar pmags 500 dollar bcgs just awesome. Karma will get them as for now ill just burn trough some of my reloads
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Just who is putting a gun to anyones head and saying they have to buy at those prices?? You NEED a pmag so bad? The BCG is for your gun that puts food on your table? No. So its peoples perogative to purchase at those prices. If people wouldnt buy at those prices the profiteers would either lower the price or be stuck with it.

Its the same when some new hot car comes or latest iphone is released. There are people willing to pay above msrp.
 
If you guys all like the price for scarce commodities being set by something other than voluntary transactions between buyers and sellers, you would probably really like North Korea.

The government sets the price for EVERYTHING over there and you certainly don't get $2 .223 or $50 PMags - in fact, you don't get .223 or AR mags at all (or food and most consumer commodities too).

That's exactly the point. Prices are symptomatic of supply and demand dynamics - nothing more.

The evil "speculators" providing supply wouldn't be able to make a profit if there wasn't a pool of willing buyers - simple as that.

At the same time, you as a prospective buyer have much more power and influence over sellers - you don't like the price of things? Just don't buy.
 
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