An interesting idea for my Gewehr 98 sporter *Project Update Dec. 20th 2011*

Nabs said:
Wow, that is my scope too! The original post was from October, 2009 and in the Europe. Nice to see who had it before the seller in the U.S. and I got a hold of it.

The seller mentioned the scope more than likely saw some post WW1 service. That doesn't bother me though.

It is a shame the range dial graduations were almost polished off. Luckily, I have been able to identify the increments of 100m up to 800m.

I do agree that the objective lens may have been replaced at one point as I can find no matches for this style in my book. It may be, however, a manufacturer difference, as there appears to be a large variety in how the scopes are made and appear and the mounting bases on which they sit. It looks like the objective might still be there under the thing that's been glued on. Pry if off is my advice. It is 100% certain a bubba addition. Compare to the other scope in that thread. Put a heat gun on it or just carefully cut it apart and remove that way. If it is bubba replacement for a missing objective lens, you can find a lens to fit with a bit of searching.

I will post some up to date photos of the scope later on tonight as the wear and tear isn't as bad as it looks in the photos.
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Oh I see what you are referring to. I think the current objective lens is a replacement piece as I can actually unscrew it from the front of the scope tube. It was actually effortless to unscrew so I guess it is a good thing to find this out now instead of at the range a few months down the road.

The whole scope body is patina in colour. The replacement lens appears to be made of all brass and simply painted over. Any idea what this stuff is and how to remove it properly ?

There is a little bit of "something ?" (perhaps hardened glue ?) that is preventing the replacement lens from screwing down completely but I believe I can remove this bit rather easily.

I think the bit of the objective lens that screws into the scope body is the original, or part of the original, objective lens as there appears to be a light soldering on the inside of the brass around where the replacement lens and the portion that screws into the scope body are joined. The only glass present on the lens is on the replacement portion.

I believe, at one point sometime after WW1, is when the lower ring was soldered on but it appears to have given way at one point and was screwed into the body just aft of the solder mark. Should I be worried about these screws affecting the scopes stability or performance ?

I also noticed a four digit number stamped right on the bottom of the scope bottom directly underneath the range adjustment dial. It reads "8551". Perhaps this is a re-serial of the scope to another rifle at one point during WW1 or post war ?

Aside from some light pitting and some wear and tear, the scope appears to be in good condition.

I think I am going to keep this objective lens for now as my student budget won't allow the purchase of a replacement piece. It also focuses in quite nicely.

Pictures of the scope, as it is today, are posted below for evaluation and comments.

For those interested, I have marked the range dial graduations with the help of photoshop. I marked, as my best guess, where the 900m mark on the dial would be.

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I have some news to report. I managed to scrap off the excess bits off the objective lens threads and now the lens is fully seated on top of the scope. It seems the close up magnification has increased a bit but I will confirm tomorrow when there is some more light.

This black stuff on the objective lens almost looks, feels, and sounds like plastic as I am able to easily pull it off with the tip of a swiss army pocket knife. I have left the rest of the black "stuff" on the objective lens until we can figure out how to remove it safely. From what i can see, the objective lens is brass that has this black stuff on top of it.

I can see this making some sense as you do not want a shiny reflective material, like brass, giving your position away on a sunny day. I will have to do through Dr. Storz's section on Sniper rifles again to see if I missed anything about field modifications that would be similar to this. Looking back at the seller's images, the objective lens is brass and not painted over so this may just be a bubba addition before it came to me.
 
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That does look fairly old, and somewhat skillfully made the way the thread is cut and the edge rolled over to retain the lens, so I think you may find that the original "cap" is under that old shellac/glue or whatever it is, which may be holding the larger "ring" onto it. Try putting it boiling water for 1/2 an hour and see if you can get it apart.

You can see from the rings that this scope has been heavily and crudely modified in the past, so anything is possible.

Might be cheaper and easier to pass this one onto to someone as spares and find a scope with the original rings and markings intact.
 
I'm going to try to pick off the rest of the "black stuff" to see what has been done underneath.

As for the objective lens, I looked through the scope in better light and noticed that, with the objective lens completely seated, the image was somewhat fuzzy. I backed it off a bit and the image became clear again. I think that is what that red glue (plastic ?) thing was put on for. I have a better idea and that is to get a rubber "O" ring, roll it on and then seat the objective lens again. This should provide a nice seal and prevent the objective lens from rotating when the rifle is fired.

I also had a look at the forward claw mount and I can't see any soldering evidence. The seller mentioned I should tap it off and get the proper ring that I see in my book but I would hate to screw up the optics by trying to tap it off. The seller is asking a friend if it is possible to remove the solder from the rear of the scope body.

Considering the rifle I am planning on mounting this scope on is a restored piece that has seen some interesting service, I think they would be a good fit together. With moving away to college in a month, my funds are rather limited for acquiring another scope. I am going to work with this one. I hope it functions properly when the time comes. For now, I must do some clean up work on the objective lens and scope body. Thoughts, comments, and suggestions in this area are welcome and encouraged.
 
gaff said:
WW I German type scopes allways go for low prices on ebay. usually less than $300.
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I find this rather interesting as it is estimated that less than 40,000 telescopic sights were made for the Gewehr 98s from 1915 to 1918 (Approximately 1% of total Gewehr 98 production). Considering the loss and damage rate I have read about during the war along with the destruction, loss, damage, and bubba rate after the war, finding a German scope from WW1 that is reasonably intact would be much more troublesome I think.

I am not sure if reproductions exist in this area as do the Zeiss scopes of WW2.

I see the WW2 Zeiss scopes going for high prices on E-bay and I am sure there were many more than 40,000 of those made. On that note, I found it a rather interesting read that Zeiss scopes submitted to the German Rifle Commission during WW1 were rejected. It seems they learned from their mistakes post war ?
 
I am very eager to finish the project as I want to shoot this rifle with her new setup quite badly.

I am in the final phase now, all that is needed is a gunsmith's touch and she will be ready for the range.

I guess good things take time, eh ?
 
For those interested, here is where the rifle sits right now:



Here are the rings and mounts I picked up along with the proper screws. I also picked up a reproduction scope carrying case that fits onto the belt or can be carried on the shoulder via carry straps. The scope fits beautifully as well.

The rings and mounts are atop one of my reference rifles though the forward ring I notice is backwards (the ring adjustment screws face to the right side). They are not aligned properly on the rifle (they kept sliding off when I was taking my pictures) but it does give you an idea what the setup will look like.

I hope you guys enjoy the pictures.

 
For those that may have missed it from the previous page, here are some of the issues I currently face with this project. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome.

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Hello CGN,

I have some project update news!

A month ago, I managed to acquire some period WW1 mounts and rings for a Gewehr 98 scope from a dealer in France. They are the early style claw mounts with the pivot locking arm on the left side of the rear mount.

The diameter looks a little bit bigger than the scope body though I still have to mate them with the scope I picked up back in June. I am thinking if they are too large, I will fit rubber spaces and tighten the rings down on to these.

Here is problem number one. The forward mount on the scope is still there but will not work with the mount I have. I will have to remove this half claw mount but I do not want to damage the optics. I am certain it is sodered into position, any recommendations for how to remove this claw ? Also the brass turn dial will likely have to be temporarily taken off so the replacement rear ring can slide into position. I'm not sure what to expect when I take the brass dial off for the first time , any thoughts if that will screw anything up inside ?

Problem two: If you guys may remember, a dove tail slot was cut into the receiver when she was a sporter. I have since removed the dove tail sight. The slot is not lined up with the iron sights of the rifle so I am glad that hideous dove tail sight is gone.

I was originally thinking I would have to make a small piece of metal to fit into the slot with a screw thread cut into it at the right angle so that the forward mount could secure into it thus making use of this dove tail slot and covering it over. Thoughts on this ? I'm no machinist so I will have to call on the assistance of fellow CGNers for this.

When I put the forward mount into it's prospective position however, there is enough clearance for screw holes to be put just below the dove tail slot. This eliminates the need to utilize the dove tail slot. It also closely mimics my reference photos of a 1915 Danzig sniper in the book "Rifle and Carbine 98". I may go with this option though part of the dove tail slot will be visible, any ideas on how to fill it in without affecting the heat treatment of the receiver ?

For those wondering, the dove tail slot was cut right over where the barrel threads would be inside the receiver. I have also test fired the rifle with about 25 rounds and she shot beautifully and very accurately at 100, 200, and 300m.

For those with the book "Rifle and Carbine 98", the mounts and rings are identical to those found on the rifle pictured on page 245.

After these two issues have been solved, all I would need to do is take the rifle to a competent gun smith, have the bolt handle bent down to the proper degree (Kar98k style, anyone know the angle that the handle is bent to on these ?), and a recess added into the stock in accordance with the period for these rifles. From my reference book, these recesses appear to be identical to the Kar98k. I was thinking of asking Ellwood Epps to see if they would be willing to give me a hand on this project as I have had very good gunsmithing service from them in the past.

I don't think this would be a terribly difficult project for a seasoned gun smith but there would be strict limits within which to work with as there would be only one chance of doing this right the first time.

For those curious, the rifle I am trying to recreate is found on page 260-261 of "Rifle and Carbine 98" by Dieter Storz.

Thoughts, suggestions, comments are always welcome. Thank you for reading.
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The Gew98 snipers with turned bolt handles had a recess cut in the stock to clear the knob. If you're going to go the whole hog on a replica, that's something you'll need to do. The flat on the bolt knob is not correct.

It's highly debatable whether anyone should make such a change to an original Gew98 stock now. They're rare enough as it is.

I'd lean toward filling the dovetail cut and leaving as a stock 98, but you're call. It's going to tough to make the square cutout in the stock look anything but fresh.
 
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