And....I'm no longer a member of ISPC BC in good standing

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The incident that you described, that made you leave the sport, is not quite right. When the Range Master came on the scene, and you and the CRO,(Note: The CRO was a section coordinator), and described the incident. The Range Master was going to 10.6 (Disqualify) the competitor that acted inappropriately. The CRO and you asked the Range Master not to proceed with the disqualification. By the way, I was the Range Master. Having not scene the inappropriate actions of the competitor, I am not going to disqualify a competitor without the backing of the officials controlling the range. I did haul off and read the competitor the riot act. Explaining to him that his conduct was unacceptable, and demanded that he go and apologies to the officials. I also informed him that if there were any other further outbursts that he would be disqualified from the event.

I trained you as an official. I know that you are very capable and smart individual, who had the ability to be a great contributor to the sport. I am sorry that you left the sport. I do not like dealing with *******s either, but I would not let one drive me out of the sport. I hope that you change your mind and come back.

DVC.
 
You are right. If you are not a member in good standing of your section then you can not compete locally, across Canada, and internationally. Technical you can not compete in the USA but USPSA has never enforced this.

DVC
 
As the owner of 2 Dairy Queen's I'm not sure if i should be insulted. I also have helped sponsor some of our matches during which DQ hats were given out. Did i break the rules? Hmmmm
 
Rob,

When you received the letter from IPSC BC did you ever actually pick up the phone and talk with your zone rep? Or call the Section Coordinator?

Having read through the correspondence, and all the posts, all you had to do was say, sorry, I will not do that again. Case closed end of story. The probation period could have been altered if challenged.

Now that you have involved lawyers, guess who is going to win...........the lawyers.

What a waste of time and effort on everyone's part.

DVC
 
Mark, the letter explicitly states to only contact in writing. It was sent registered mail to me. If I'd thought a simple phone call and apology would have dealt with it, I would have done just that. But the first letter was drafted with obvious intent. Otherwise why was I not just phoned, or talked to in person? I was at the Thompson match after the Nationals, anyone could have talked to me then, and it could have been dealt with. You know as well as I do that the threat behind the probation could easily be used to intimidate a person at a match. I look sideways at someone or laugh at the wrong moment, boom a complaint is made and I'm gone. So seriously how else was in to respond to an official letter?
I'd like nothing better than for the board to call me and us sort this out without lawyers, but I don't see that happening. Especially since proper procedure was not followed. I also know that even if I get back in, (and as it stands now I read the letter to say I'm gone permanently, not for 2 years as some seem to think), that there are going to be hard feelings from people over this, and I'm going to be under a very strong microscope for everything I say or do. I knew that when I contacted my lawyer, and still felt it was my only option.
 
DVC1911 said:
The incident that you described, that made you leave the sport, is not quite right. When the Range Master came on the scene, and you and the CRO,(Note: The CRO was a section coordinator), and described the incident. The Range Master was going to 10.6 (Disqualify) the competitor that acted inappropriately. The CRO and you asked the Range Master not to proceed with the disqualification. By the way, I was the Range Master. Having not scene the inappropriate actions of the competitor, I am not going to disqualify a competitor without the backing of the officials controlling the range. I did haul off and read the competitor the riot act. Explaining to him that his conduct was unacceptable, and demanded that he go and apologies to the officials. I also informed him that if there were any other further outbursts that he would be disqualified from the event.

I trained you as an official. I know that you are very capable and smart individual, who had the ability to be a great contributor to the sport. I am sorry that you left the sport. I do not like dealing with *******s either, but I would not let one drive me out of the sport. I hope that you change your mind and come back.

DVC.
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Well DVC 1911 true that we all panicked on that stage after that horrific incident. True you did not see it. I was a new RO and
One of BC's golden shooter production people had just screamed, bullied and humiliated me and the CRO. The CRO should have done something also, she was there and I am not sure why she stood there either. The behavior of this shooter is well known as well as the shooter he was screaming about but this has always been okay.

The reason I spoke up is that the thing that has happened to Rob is so ridiculous. If one of BC's golden boys did this they would have told the complainer to quietly go away. There really seems to be one rule door some and not others. Certain people can get away with screaming, intimidating, accusing each other of cheating etc but a gesture done in fun is probation worthy. Interesting. I got a crappy apology and nothing happened. I made the decision to go based on broken rules. Every Sport has its special kids for sure but this is just ridiculous. The nastiness of a few sure can spoil the fun of many. I heard really bad remarks said about me after the match, how the screaming shooter was going have me banned as an RO apparently but DQ certificates are a no no, it's politically incorrect. Did you notice my DQ certificate posted?

It's all over the top. Like I said in my original post, I went away I did not air the incident here. The reason I do now is because it is my own opinion after reading everything that has happened to Rob, rules were obviously not followed. I belong to a few volunteer boards and we in the province of BC cannot take action against Rob the way IPSC BC has gone after him. Probation for a gesture made at a dinner in good fun was extreme just like you feel his reaction here may be. What a shame the power tripping of a few it seems can sure make things unpleasant for the others.

That's what happened to me and how I was made to feel.
 
this is the response I got from Clint to my inquiry on the IPSCBC members forum

Hello everyone,
I am currently away in Vegas at the US Nationals, so I will keep this short:
Correspondence was exchanged between Rob & the BOD as a result of complaints
received regarding an incident at the Canadian nationals awards banquet. I can assure everyone
that he has NOT been suspended for 2 years. The BOD had no choice but to issue a suspension
following Robs refusal to comply with with the boards request that he simply apologize to the
parties involved.
I hope this clarifies all of the rumors and supposition.

Regards
Clint
 
He's one hundred percent correct, the suspension specifically does not give a time frame for the suspension which means as long as they see fit. They have not followed the rule book, the rules of order, or our Constitution in applying any of this. They had a secret hearing, came to a verdict and handed out punishment. I objected, strenuously, and provided evidence that this practice is common place in our sport, that I had permission in advance from both parties significant others, that I had permission to post photos to my Facebook, and that worse things were done at our recent Provincials for all to see, worldwide.
I will happily apologize to the affected party, tell me who it is, have them call me. Which they could have done in the first place.
 
seems like this is a WHOLE lot of Drama for such a simple solution. Call or email, or letter. Talk to in person, etc.

" Sorry if I offended someone, I won't let it happen again"....The end. I believe since it was an official complaint, I would think they are obligated with a paper trail. Anyhow, this is just an added stressor to your life right now, which I know you don't need . With your mom being sick, my advice is to put this petty stuff aside and deal with it when you can.

.....by the way. To all of the IPSC haters or persons who "would have tried IPSC, but not now". Were you really going to anyhow?! Just seems like an excuse to not participate. I heard it all before, but using this one incident as a scapegoat is kinda lame. There are matches happening all over the country, every weekend, all year round. Millions, upon millions of rounds fired. Really?....are you really going to let this one incident deter you from trying IPSC? That sounds suspiciously like you were not going to in the first place.
 
I think that the solution should have been a lot simpler. Seeing that Clint himself has given "booby prizes" to DQ'd shooters, If someone wanted to launch an official complaint they should have been shut down right away. Who gets insulted by a booby prize. If you get insuled grow a set of b***s. If I got upset every time someone called me an old fart or variouse other terms that have been thrown around, the BOD would be busy after every shoot I was ever at and a lot of people would be suspended
 
This whole thing is crazy nuts, but as many others have said here it happens in almost ever organized sport at every level. My family showed horses for years, same sh*t, I used to show/trial dogs, same sh*t ....

What happened to the OP as outlined here is BS but it's a reminder to all that although it shouldn't be, this kind of thing seems to be part of 'the experience' of organized sports. Some play for fun others for fame, the two always seem to end up at odds sooner or later.
 
maurice said:
.....by the way. To all of the IPSC haters or persons who "would have tried IPSC, but not now". Were you really going to anyhow?! Just seems like an excuse to not participate. I heard it all before, but using this one incident as a scapegoat is kinda lame. There are matches happening all over the country, every weekend, all year round. Millions, upon millions of rounds fired. Really?....are you really going to let this one incident deter you from trying IPSC? That sounds suspiciously like you were not going to in the first place.
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I could not agree more...!
 
To me a simple apology and asking for a formal letter of appology to everyone from the recipients to the Board of IPSC BC and the entire membership is not exactly the same thing. What I got from the official communication was not, please call or email so and so and say you are sorry. It seemes to be a request for Rob to publicly abase himself before the IPSC BC membership.
 
A lot of intent can get lost in written communications. It's always possible that has happened here, and in the process of trying to make the letter all "official-like" things went bad very quickly. If it started out intended one way it certainly didn't come across or stay that way. :(

The other possibility is that it is simply exactly what it looks like:

1. You must immediately abase yourself publicly and officially until we're satisfied. You are now on thin effin' ice with us for 2 years, because this is serious business.
2. What's this? You are going to be difficult and appeal/ask questions? Fine, we'll show you hardball. You're banned for life!
3. If you have any questions, please direct them to that brick wall over there.

It's a horrible runaway situation - unavoidable when you start out flawed, and will not "back down" in any way. Hopefully it's not too late for someone to say 'Hey, let's back this up - this has gotten out of control and isn't at all what we meant or wanted.'


If no other good comes of this, we should take it as a reminder and lesson that no matter how open-and-shut something might seem when it comes to you, no matter how much it might seem like a waste of time to bother getting all sides, do it anyway. There's nothing so simple that it can't be complicated by an embarrassing misunderstanding.
 
I would mime the posts of others to say that IPSC BC has taken this too far. Even if it was just a few bad apples screwing around with people to exert their "muscle", it should never have resulted in lawyers getting involved - That is purely ridiculous. I've yet to join either IPSC or IDPA, but from what I've viewed as an outsider IDPA appears far more relaxed and actually concerned with improving skill over IPSCs "gaming" and general over-obsession with the rules rather than the safe enjoyment of the match.

Just my two cents.
 
rtracer13 said:
I've yet to join either IPSC or IDPA, but from what I've viewed as an outsider IDPA appears far more relaxed and actually concerned with improving skill over IPSCs "gaming" and general over-obsession with the rules rather than the safe enjoyment of the match.

Just my two cents.
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IMO safety has always been the prime concern at any and all matches I have ever attended.
The level of dedication on this task by all IPSC members has always impressed me and is one of the prime reasons I love IPSC.
IPSC has the black badge, IDPA to my knowledge does not.
For the record, I haven't shot IDPA.
 
lets keep this thread on topic people. IPSC vs IDPA arguments can take place somewhere else.
 
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