Annealing 308 Win cases

Ganderite

Ganderite

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I have seldom annealed cases. Just did it when forming cases into new calibers.

My son has re-barrelled his rifle and will have to develop a new load. All of his brass (700 pieces) will have to be full length sized to fit the new chamber.

I load for him. On the last loading I noticed erratic neck tensions. Cases had been reloaded 5 times. I made a not that I should either anneal the cases or buy new brass.

I suggest he buy 500 new Lapua Palma cases. He thinks he would rather save the money and use the Lapua and Norma cases he already has.

I will trim them all to a common length, mouth champfer them all and then anneal. The only tool I have is a butane torch.

If I turn the case neck/shoulder in the flame until I feel heat in the case head, is that about right? And then drop it in water.
 
Check out ammo smiths method for using a socket mounted in a hand drill. I have used that method to reasonable affect. Of course it is tough to guage the consistency of the job with counting or using a timer, but it is close enough I have found. Around 6-8 seconds depending on the brass should do in a single propane torch with about a 1" internal blue flame. Enjoy the you tube videos on this one. Personally, I would keep your fingers clear of the heat
Elky...
 
look for the blue colouration to run into the body of the brass and then dump them into a bucket of water. Some say no difference with air cooling, but that is the way I do it and ammo smith does it. You can do 50 rounds in a surprisingly short period of time this way.
Elky
 
I do it by hand, but I use a Lee universal decapping pin in the mouth to rotate the case on. I find it works quite well, as your fingers are a good judge of the case getting too hot.
I know it's not as accurate as using an annealing machine and tempilaq, but it works fine for my purposes.
 
I have just done this a few times , I watched a vid on the bench source annealer and did it his way with my torch w/drill and socket
Put a fairly good flame on (not to high ) put it on the shoulder pointing to the case mouth and go UNTILL the case starts flashing orange out the mouth. Seems to work good . He says set it so it comes out before the flash off but I do mixed brass and the count isn't the same and I have trouble with the repetitive counting .
I tried templac and the only consistent result I got was a PITA

PS- I just dump mine on a cardboard on the floor so the mouth doesn't get dinged
 
The way I have done it for many years, got the method from John Wooters I believe.
1. Deprime ( size as well at the same time)
2. Stand the cases upright in a metal baking pan and pour in enough water to bring the level to 1/2-3/4" up the cases
3. One at a time, heat the neck end to dull red, then tip it over into the water with a table knife to quench.
The quench softens the brass and prevents brittleness. The water part way up the case prevents overheating and softening of the brass in the vulnerable case head area which is subject to the most pressure and therefore also subject to possible stretching and over expansion. The treated brass will survive many loadings without excess stretching or cracking.
As well as trimming you might also want to look into neck turning or reaming on cases that have been reloaded multiple times. Uniform neck tension is one factor in maximum accuracy and variable tension is a major contributor to erratic velocities.
Good luck, Jim
 
Ashcroft said:
The way I have done it for many years, got the method from John Wooters I believe.
1. Deprime ( size as well at the same time)
2. Stand the cases upright in a metal baking pan and pour in enough water to bring the level to 1/2-3/4" up the cases
3. One at a time, heat the neck end to dull red, then tip it over into the water with a table knife to quench.
The quench softens the brass and prevents brittleness. The water part way up the case prevents overheating and softening of the brass in the vulnerable case head area which is subject to the most pressure and therefore also subject to possible stretching and over expansion. The treated brass will survive many loadings without excess stretching or cracking.
As well as trimming you might also want to look into neck turning or reaming on cases that have been reloaded multiple times. Uniform neck tension is one factor in maximum accuracy and variable tension is a major contributor to erratic velocities.
Good luck, Jim
Click to expand...

I used that technique about 30 years ago. That was the last time I did any annealing, other than when converting 303 to 410.

The "dull red" is too hot, according to the video Jerry posted. I will be hand holding the cases and will use 6 to 8 seconds and then drop. Better too little than too much.
 
That's the same video I went by . Like I said doing different brass makes the time different . I've tried to pull just as the orange color appeared and it seems to be ok - the cases don't seem to change color - but I'm not worried about the color and can tell it's done somthing by the feel off the expander through the press . I hope there's some error margin .

Anybody know if there is a way to detect over annealing other than color and the feel while seating the bullet and of course collapsing the case?
 
i've overheated some anealed brass and then worked a bit sizing it up and down to different calibers and it seems no different than the ones done at a lower temp .

the biggest thing is keeping heat away from the case head.
 
Ganderite...for myself it's the torch and socket method based on what was happening with the Tempilaq 750. I didn't want to wreck a bunch of Lapua cases due to ignorance on my part. Mystic with the education and Yodave with interpretation and process helped out lots. Don't know if this link will work, never tried this here but here's a thread if you do use something to provide some feedback regarding heat/temperature.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1508265-Tempilaq-750-results-interpretations-with-pics-MORE-samples?highlight=tempilaq

Tempilaq is a son of a gun to work with but I found dipping the applicator brush into the tempilaq every time before applying onto the case worked best. The solvent carrier evaporates sooo fast that the chalky substance becomes chunky and looses adhearance to the case if continually brushed on in one long attempt.

My 2 cents...the water in tray method isolates the heat from the base. Dropping heated cases into a water bucket deadens the heat transfer to protect the base. Water quenching works with steel in terms of having an effect on hardness from what I've learned and experienced...but this isn't steel. Water isn't part of the process here.

FWIW, with the torch and setup I had it was 5 seconds for neck turned Lapua brass 7-08. Neck turned Federal *cough* was shorter. Used the count down timer on my phone to make sure I didn't go over.

Regards
Ronr
 
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Tempilstik should work but it seems difficult to get it to mark the brass but if you can get it to mark might be better then tempilaq. but finding 750 tempilstik or tempilaq is the problem.
 
wce323078 said:
Tempilstik should work but it seems difficult to get it to mark the brass but if you can get it to mark might be better then tempilaq. but finding 750 tempilstik or tempilaq is the problem.
Click to expand...

You can get (or order) the sticks at pretty much every welding supply store.

The welding store in my city could not get the tempilaq so I went with the stick
and it's indeed hard to visibly mark the brass, especially if it's really clean brass.

I just did some experimenting and found a solution; I made powder out of the stick with
the kitchen mortar and pestle :) and used acetone to sort of dissolve the powder.
If you put this mix into a small empty/clean container or bottle (like nailpolish bottle)
it works great. It dries almost instantly when applied and sticks really well.
 
To monitor temp, the only real way to do it is with tempilac or similar welding crayon.

Once you use a temp indicator and play with various brands of brass, lots and even number of firings, you quickly realise visual cues don't always work.

And once you have a temp indicator, you still need to see what dwell is needed for each batch of brass (brand, lot and number of firings).

With my dual flame set up, I have never gone over 4.5 secs... mostly under 4secs.

So..... YMMV.

Jerry
 
bertn said:
You can get (or order) the sticks at pretty much every welding supply store.

The welding store in my city could not get the tempilaq so I went with the stick
and it's indeed hard to visibly mark the brass, especially if it's really clean brass.

I just did some experimenting and found a solution; I made powder out of the stick with
the kitchen mortar and pestle :) and used acetone to sort of dissolve the powder.
If you put this mix into a small empty/clean container or bottle (like nailpolish bottle)
it works great. It dries almost instantly when applied and sticks really well.
Click to expand...

Yes you can order it in. That's what I had to do. Problem is not many supply places carry it in the 750 temp range it is not a temperature range that is used much in welding. took about 2 months. and I am in BC and only places WE could find was in Ontario and they had to order it in. and it is a bit difficult to get the tempilaq to stick to the case as well. took a while but I find I had to not shake it up to much.
 
I hold in my hand in a fairly dark room. Once you do a few you can tell when to pull it away just before it turns red. Red means toss. If it turns red the brass will be too soft. Do not go by other's time. Each manufacture takes a different amount of time. For my 300 wsm Fed brass could only take about 4 secs. Winchester 6 to 8 and barnes 8 or 9. The name brand makes a huge difference. Have done approx 500 so far & other than losing a few for testing have lost no others & have not experienced neck cracking since doing it this way. A torch with a sharp flame is best & hold at an angle away from the base as you twirl it. FYI, I still have all my fingers. I don't think it is nearly as hard as people suggest. As well once done I drop onto a damp cloth. Learned this from Nathan on an Australian web site.
 
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