Annual "Who's using irons" thread...

I own rifles that wear scopes, others that are fitted with ghost rings and posts, and some have both irons and scopes. My quandary at the moment is to decide how to proceed with my Winchester M-70 Safari .458. The factory sights don't do if for me in that the rear sight has a very narrow deep V, which tends to block the target, the bead front sights provides no index of elevation, or sharp contrast with natural objects which tend not to have sharp edges, and the front sight ramp appears to be a bit fragile particularly with the small mounting screws used to hold it to the barrel.

The rifle is primarily going to be used as a bear gun which suggests that a ghost ring and post is an optimal sighting arrangement, but this choice limits my ability of shooting well, to about 200 yards, under all circumstances. While I've on occasion shot MOA groups at 300 yards with irons, it was under bright sunny conditions, with little wind, on a target that sharply contrasting both the sight and the background, it was not with a .458, and the occasions stand out clearly in my memory. I've shot many 1-2 MOA groups under field conditions at and beyond 300 yards with scoped hunting rifles of considerable power, and none of those occasion stands out in my memory as exceptional. If I intend to get 300 yards out of this thing, I think I have to scope it. My choice of glass at the moment is directed toward the 1-4X25 Nightforce. This scope has 100' field of view at 100, so should be a good scope should the occasion arise for a close range shot in the willows, the etched reticle should be resilient to recoil abuse, and the NP-1 reticle might be useful for providing sufficient hold over for longish shots, although I would have to work with it a while to determine that.

So why the quandary? It should be a simple matter to mount the scope in QD rings, carry a back-up ghost ring rear sight, and install a front barrel band sight with a robust front post. Well, I want the scope mounted so the the scope's ocular is in line with, and no farther rearward than the rear of the cocking piece. I can't think of any QD extension rings, and of tyhere were, would they provide sufficient length to accommodate the long eye piece of the Nightforce scope? A two piece pic rail with Weaver style rings might provide an answer, but I'll have to give the matter a bit more thought.

Hi Boomer, I see...yes that's a challenging problem. My thoughts are that if you have decided it's best to scope it, and have chosen the scope mentioned with lots of field of view - then I wouldn't worry about it having QR rings. Low power scopes are fantastic at getting on target fast up close, in my experience.

Jeff.
 
I ll be hunting with a Sako Bavarian carbine in 308 and a Winchester 86 extra light both with iron sights this year.Most of my guns wear iron sights, I bought the Bavarian carbine so as I could have one scoped deer rifle if I needed it but can t bring myself to break up those nice lines with a scope.It might wear a scope someday as I get older.
 
I own rifles that wear scopes, others that are fitted with ghost rings and posts, and some have both irons and scopes. My quandary at the moment is to decide how to proceed with my Winchester M-70 Safari .458. The factory sights don't do if for me in that the rear sight has a very narrow deep V, which tends to block the target, the bead front sights provides no index of elevation, or sharp contrast with natural objects which tend not to have sharp edges, and the front sight ramp appears to be a bit fragile particularly with the small mounting screws used to hold it to the barrel.

The rifle is primarily going to be used as a bear gun which suggests that a ghost ring and post is an optimal sighting arrangement, but this choice limits my ability of shooting well, to about 200 yards, under all circumstances. While I've on occasion shot MOA groups at 300 yards with irons, it was under bright sunny conditions, with little wind, on a target that sharply contrasting both the sight and the background, it was not with a .458, and the occasions stand out clearly in my memory. I've shot many 1-2 MOA groups under field conditions at and beyond 300 yards with scoped hunting rifles of considerable power, and none of those occasion stands out in my memory as exceptional. If I intend to get 300 yards out of this thing, I think I have to scope it. My choice of glass at the moment is directed toward the 1-4X25 Nightforce. This scope has 100' field of view at 100, so should be a good scope should the occasion arise for a close range shot in the willows, the etched reticle should be resilient to recoil abuse, and the NP-1 reticle might be useful for providing sufficient hold over for longish shots, although I would have to work with it a while to determine that.

So why the quandary? It should be a simple matter to mount the scope in QD rings, carry a back-up ghost ring rear sight, and install a front barrel band sight with a robust front post. Well, I want the scope mounted so the the scope's ocular is in line with, and no farther rearward than the rear of the cocking piece. I can't think of any QD extension rings, and of tyhere were, would they provide sufficient length to accommodate the long eye piece of the Nightforce scope? A two piece pic rail with Weaver style rings might provide an answer, but I'll have to give the matter a bit more thought.

You could put an EGW rail on it if they make one for the Safari.

The Leupold 2.5x20mm has 5" of eye relief, fits the rifle very well with Burris XTB bases and Weaver top mount or Leupold QRW rings. If you can get an NECG Picatinny mount peep with the QRW setup, you might not need to remove the rear mount.
 
Well, as per my signature line, everything that I have, other then my shotgun, is a milsurp. All but one are still is full military config; 3x enfeilds with aperture's (one has cut down stock), 1x M1917 with aperture. And I won't be using the AG42B.

As for my shotgun, I haven't been able to decide on an optic for my rifled slug barrel with cantilever mount. So, should I chose to hunt deer with my shotgun, I will be using my 24" barrel with f/o rifle sights (turkey barrel with a improved cyl. rather then xxfull choke), and f/o bead on the 28" barrel for waterfowl.

Now I just need to decide what to use. Also, I am open to suggestions on what I should be using for the cantilever mount barrel.
 
My Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine will never see a scope:

5941769811_235ec1a5ee_b.jpg


Neither will my Venezuelan Short Rifle (Model 1930 FN Mauser):
4988133911_707f94cb44_b.jpg

4911507574_bb51d270f8_b.jpg
 
For my hunting guns: 38/55 RB. #1 1/2 MVA Tang sight, MVA front w/inserts
45/70 Hiwall MVA Soule Tang, MVA front w/inserts
50-90 Sharps '74 buckhorn barrel sight w/silver front (due to recoil)
.44 Marlin '94 buckhorn/firesight front
45/70 Marlin '95 Cowboy Williams rear peep, firesight fr.
30/30 Remlin.336 Skinner rear peep, firesight front
 
Me too flintlock with buckhorn rear site and my Buffalo classic with factory sights for deer/bear, 870 with fibre optic rifle sights for turkey. All my rifles are iron-sighted, even air-rifles. Skokie
 
Hi Boomer, I see...yes that's a challenging problem. My thoughts are that if you have decided it's best to scope it, and have chosen the scope mentioned with lots of field of view - then I wouldn't worry about it having QR rings. Low power scopes are fantastic at getting on target fast up close, in my experience.

Jeff.

Jeff, the logic of having QD rings is in case the scope fails while I'm in the field, that way I would have the irons to fall back on.
 
You could put an EGW rail on it if they make one for the Safari.

The Leupold 2.5x20mm has 5" of eye relief, fits the rifle very well with Burris XTB bases and Weaver top mount or Leupold QRW rings. If you can get an NECG Picatinny mount peep with the QRW setup, you might not need to remove the rear mount.

I have a high regard for Leupold scopes, but for this particular application, I think the Nightforce product is superior. I prefer a two piece mount over a rail for this application as I dislike the idea of a rail over the ejection port, but I will give that some consideration.
 
I have only 1 big game rifle with a scope. A model 99 in 300 savage, and it is only a Bushnel elite 3200 in 1.5 - 4.5x32. The rest have irons of some sort.
99c 308 win williams peep bead front
win 94 BB 356 Williams FP and a Skinners brass post
Win mod 94 30-30 circa 1942, factory semi buckhorn.
As you can see I like levers and they just don't feel right with a scope.
I might switch the scope to the 308 but not sure yet.
 
I'm actually going the opposite route this year, trying out a scope on my Savage 99e in .308 for the first time in deer season. If I don't like it, then out comes the Marlin in .35 with skinner sights.
 
I use only irons. Don't own a scoped gun. I've hunted for 43 years and 100% of all the game I've taken has been with irons. I keep my shots to 200 yds or less.
 
I'll be giving it the old college try! If I get my bison tag in the near future and can get out while the weather is still good I'm going to try walking up on a big bull with the 9.3x62.
 
Jeff, the logic of having QD rings is in case the scope fails while I'm in the field, that way I would have the irons to fall back on.

I understand that...and it's always nice to have a backup. I just meant that with a low powered, quality scope you'd probably be OK. :)
 
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