Another 45-90WCF these things are everywhere!

D

dirtybarry

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Quite literally up until wolfboy posted about his the other day, I did not know these even existed. Now I have one. From what I've been told it is a Winchester model 1886 1906 version (serial # confirms as 1 of 6724 made that year) and appears to be in pretty good condition overall. The bore had some surface rust, the elevator has some spotting and the action looks like it could use some TLC. I ran some G96 through it and then some Rem Oil and the bore looks pristine now. And it came with 10 rounds of factory Winchester ammo that I'm guessing from the numbers on the box was manufactured in May 1925. The stock may have been refinished but it looks pretty original to me with only 1 small ding. What looks like rust on the forestock cap is the bluing worn through to whatever the base metal is or changing colour (apparently old bluing does that). A couple of the screw heads are mushed a bit but it's all there and is an impressive piece of machinery. And no, it is not for sale. I am going to shoot it some day but not with 90 year old ammo!

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I've always been a fan of these rifles, and love the big straight wall 19th Century cartridges. I bought my 1886 before the intermanet and they were not easy to find back then, at least in my region. Had to travel a fair ways to pick it up too. Got it for a steal though even then because it had been restocked and it was (and is) a shooter more than a collector. It had one NEBC buffalo to its credit when I bought it.

It amazes me now, how much easier it is to find stuff like this as well as to figure out how to load for them, short of spending hours on the phone to US numbers, or writing letters (to track down hard-to-find stuff I mean). OK for repairs, collector information etc it was books and talking it through with others. The rest was trial and error and often on something like an original Winchester, an "error" can be very detrimental. These days, the improved access to information greatly improves your odds of getting a repair/reload etc right the first time or at least on the right track.
 
Unlike the current 45-90 BPCR's that fling 550 gr bullets with a 1x16/1x18" twist, the lever action rifles were regarded as "Express" rifles, shooting lighter bullets from slower twist barrels.
You might want to think twice about taking on a Grizzly with 300 gr "Express" loads.
 
Sharps '63 said:
Unlike the current 45-90 BPCR's that fling 550 gr bullets with a 1x16/1x18" twist, the lever action rifles were regarded as "Express" rifles, shooting lighter bullets from slower twist barrels.
You might want to think twice about taking on a Grizzly with 300 gr "Express" loads.
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Won't be a problem since a) I am scared sh**less of bears and b) the closest I get to hunting is stalking the wily cheeseburger. I just want make sure this thing is safe to shoot and that I don't wreck it, so there will be some very mild loads used. Thanks to everyone who posted in wolfboy's thread, I ordered 50 pieces of new Starline brass from Rusty Wood last night. No bullets yet but there are a few choices. Already have a bunch of H322, H335 and LRP's. Dies are readily available from various Canadian dealers (and sponsors) but I'll hold off on those for a bit since I still have to thoroughly clean and service the gun first. After all, I've only had it for less than 24hrs at this point.
 
Like Sharps '63 says though, the preferred boolit for these (avoid jacketed in these old girls...) will be a 300 grain cast bullet. The rate of twist is intended for the shorter bullet at a higher velocity. (That was the "Express Load")

That said I shoot mine with 405 grain cast all the time, it still makes the target...just need to spend more time in load development. The bore in mine is "Not Mint" either so...
 
While I suspect the gun has been after market blued and has had it's wood replaced, it is still a fine piece of history that can be used without worry of degrading the value through use.

I have an early 86' that will shoot 400 gr hard cast reasonably well, but, as already suggested, it really shines with 300-340 gr (2" or slightly less). All very light smokeless loads.
As Northcoast suggested, I don't use copper jacketed in anything I own manufactured before 1920 (just a personally decided arbitrary #). That being said, I have used Powder Coated bullets in 3 of my modern lever guns and two of them shoot PC'd bullets as good as any jacketed I have tried in them (the third, a new Miroku in 45-90 has never been fed a jacketed yet so not really applicable in this comparison). All three of these guns shoot hard cast wax lubed into a 2" or so group but I have shot 1" or better with Pc bullets in all of them. I will be giving Pc'd bullets a test in all my old guns this spring, including the 86.
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Like Sharps '63 says though, the preferred boolit for these (avoid jacketed in these old girls...) will be a 300 grain cast bullet. The rate of twist is intended for the shorter bullet at a higher velocity. (That was the "Express Load")

That said I shoot mine with 405 grain cast all the time, it still makes the target...just need to spend more time in load development. The bore in mine is "Not Mint" either so...
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This statement I always held to be truth as well...but then there's the period ammo stating 'soft point'. I thought WTF! OP are these jacketed soft points from the 1920's?
 
plinker 777 said:
This statement I always held to be truth as well...but then there's the period ammo stating 'soft point'. I thought WTF! OP are these jacketed soft points from the 1920's?
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Yup, weird looking things. Kinda more like a half jacket or a really big gas check.
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Also according the second owner who got it from his grandfather in the 60's, the stock was refinished but the bluing is original. Or at least he never had it done in the 50 odd years that he had it. This is the only mark that I've found on the whole stock.
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tjsudbury said:
If your going to shoot off that ammo, keep in mind that it is probably corrosive.
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Oh, not going to shoot this stuff as the supply of 90 year old factory ammo is rather limited. I've ordered 50 pieces of brass and will pick up some dies and bullets some day. Unlike certain revolvers, this gun won't be getting a lot of use.
 
Nothing stopping you from shooting 45-70 thru it ... I do it all the time. Just give the chamber a good scrubbing out before shooting 45-90 ...
 
dirtybarry said:
Oh, not going to shoot this stuff as the supply of 90 year old factory ammo is rather limited. I've ordered 50 pieces of brass and will pick up some dies and bullets some day. Unlike certain revolvers, this gun won't be getting a lot of use.
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If you're needing dies and cast boolits ... give me a shout...
 
superted said:
Nothing stopping you from shooting 45-70 thru it ... I do it all the time. Just give the chamber a good scrubbing out before shooting 45-90 ...
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New 45-90 brass doesn't cost a lot more than new 45-70 stuff, so I ordered some. But it will be a while before I take it out for a spin due to some other things going on. Meantime, since it hasn't been fired since I got a drivers license, as few more months won't matter.
 
dirtybarry said:
Yup, weird looking things. Kinda more like a half jacket or a really big gas check.
1zq614y.jpg


Also according the second owner who got it from his grandfather in the 60's, the stock was refinished but the bluing is original. Or at least he never had it done in the 50 odd years that he had it. This is the only mark that I've found on the whole stock.
9zqec2.jpg
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Whoa...
 
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