Bittermansbro
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Yes, Colt made the first Berdans, the Trapdoor-like ones. The Berdan II was made by the Russians
Another Grail Quest Complete - Russian Berdan
- Thread starter Bittermansbro
- Start date
Bittermansbro,
After following your thread I became interested in learning more about these Russian Berdan rifles and I found the link attached below.
I owned one of these guns many years ago and I never knew much about it,...it was before the Internet and the books that are now available.
I suspect that you may have already seen this web site ........I found it quite interesting.
Congratulations on finding this rather rare interesting piece.
David
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Russia/RBerdan2.htm
http://www.russianwarrior.com/STMMain.htm?1870AmmoBerdan.htm&1
______________________________________________________________________
Some U.S. Civil War history about Hiram Berdan......that is where it started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Berdan
http://www.snipersparadise.com/history/berdan.htm
http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/art.html
http://www.civilwar.si.edu/weapons_sharpsrifle.html
After following your thread I became interested in learning more about these Russian Berdan rifles and I found the link attached below.
I owned one of these guns many years ago and I never knew much about it,...it was before the Internet and the books that are now available.
I suspect that you may have already seen this web site ........I found it quite interesting.
Congratulations on finding this rather rare interesting piece.
David
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Russia/RBerdan2.htm
http://www.russianwarrior.com/STMMain.htm?1870AmmoBerdan.htm&1
______________________________________________________________________
Some U.S. Civil War history about Hiram Berdan......that is where it started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Berdan
http://www.snipersparadise.com/history/berdan.htm
http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/art.html
http://www.civilwar.si.edu/weapons_sharpsrifle.html
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Bittermansbro
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Thanks David, I found those pages when I started looking into things. Still, for such a big internet, there is very few pieces of information on a rifle that was made into the million mark. Such however seems the deep darkness of Russia when it comes to these things.
Hiram Berdan's story is an interesting one.
Are you sure you want to mount a scope on this rifle?
These guns appear to be hard to find, and I have briefly noticed some of the prices associated with these guns in collectable condition.
The moment you modify the gun is the moment that the collectable element changes........
Obviously..... it is your gun and you will do what pleases you.
Enjoy it in whatever way makes sense to you.
David
____________________________________________________________________________
By way of example ...the New Model 1863 Sharps carbine shown below was factory altered by Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Co. from the Civil War percussion 52 caliber to 50-70 centerfire in 1867 for use during the Indian War period.
A total of 31,098 carbines, New Model 1859,1863,and 1865 were converted.
The original unaltered percussion version of this carbine in the same condition is definitely worth more.
This only becomes an issue if the gun is viewed principally as a collectable....when the gun is modified from its original factory configuration..... is when the collector value (usually) is no longer the major consideration.....and shooter values (usually) apply.
David
The longer centerfire cartridges are 50-70 caliber for the conversion Sharps carbine, the shorter rimfire cartridges 56-56 (52 caliber) and 56-52 (50 caliber-post war) are for the Spencer carbine.
On these converted Sharps carbines in addition to the normal inspector markings found on Sharps percussion arms, an extra inspection stamp (initials DFC in a ribbon cartouche) was marked in the center of the left side of the buttstock.
A Model 1860 Spencer carbine that was also recycled after the Civil War for further use during the Indian War period.
(Civil War model: -serial number range 11000 to 61000 approx. 50,000 manufactured.)
Magazine tube fitted through the center of the buttstock, this carbine was a seven shot repeater……50 caliber rimfire (56-52 and 56-50 interchangeable.)
Post war alteration (1867-1874) was done by the Springfield Armory with the addition of the “Stabler cut-off” which was added forward of the trigger to allow use as a single shot. (keeps the breech from opening completely.)
Over 11,000 of these carbines were altered.
The inspection marking on the left side of the stock following the post war alteration was “ESA” in an oval cartouche.
Other Civil War period inspection stamps are also 'somewhat visable' in the photo below.
Are you sure you want to mount a scope on this rifle?
These guns appear to be hard to find, and I have briefly noticed some of the prices associated with these guns in collectable condition.
The moment you modify the gun is the moment that the collectable element changes........
Obviously..... it is your gun and you will do what pleases you.
Enjoy it in whatever way makes sense to you.
David
____________________________________________________________________________
By way of example ...the New Model 1863 Sharps carbine shown below was factory altered by Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Co. from the Civil War percussion 52 caliber to 50-70 centerfire in 1867 for use during the Indian War period.
A total of 31,098 carbines, New Model 1859,1863,and 1865 were converted.
The original unaltered percussion version of this carbine in the same condition is definitely worth more.
This only becomes an issue if the gun is viewed principally as a collectable....when the gun is modified from its original factory configuration..... is when the collector value (usually) is no longer the major consideration.....and shooter values (usually) apply.
David
The longer centerfire cartridges are 50-70 caliber for the conversion Sharps carbine, the shorter rimfire cartridges 56-56 (52 caliber) and 56-52 (50 caliber-post war) are for the Spencer carbine.
On these converted Sharps carbines in addition to the normal inspector markings found on Sharps percussion arms, an extra inspection stamp (initials DFC in a ribbon cartouche) was marked in the center of the left side of the buttstock.
A Model 1860 Spencer carbine that was also recycled after the Civil War for further use during the Indian War period.
(Civil War model: -serial number range 11000 to 61000 approx. 50,000 manufactured.)
Magazine tube fitted through the center of the buttstock, this carbine was a seven shot repeater……50 caliber rimfire (56-52 and 56-50 interchangeable.)
Post war alteration (1867-1874) was done by the Springfield Armory with the addition of the “Stabler cut-off” which was added forward of the trigger to allow use as a single shot. (keeps the breech from opening completely.)
Over 11,000 of these carbines were altered.
The inspection marking on the left side of the stock following the post war alteration was “ESA” in an oval cartouche.
Other Civil War period inspection stamps are also 'somewhat visable' in the photo below.
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Bittermansbro
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Sorry David, as bear said, I was just joking. If I was a bubba of any sort, I would have been banished from Milsurp to the wastelands ages ago. I firmly believe in 'original congfiguration'.
Bittermansbro,
I am relieved to hear that was never your intention....
I guess I was a naive turkey?
I really swallowed the hook.
Too many original guns get messed with....and I guess I have a problem with that......even though it is absolutely none of my business.
But I still cringe when I hear about it….
David
I am relieved to hear that was never your intention....
I guess I was a naive turkey?
I really swallowed the hook.
Too many original guns get messed with....and I guess I have a problem with that......even though it is absolutely none of my business.
But I still cringe when I hear about it….
David
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Great find - first I've seen on CGN. Love those big bores!
Last I checked, "Track of the Wolf" sells 43 Spanish brass and ships to Canada. They sell in singles, 100's, etc.
I am still kicking myself over a Werndl that was posted last year for weeks and I just watched it get Btt'd. Didn't sell, and went away never to return.
Last I checked, "Track of the Wolf" sells 43 Spanish brass and ships to Canada. They sell in singles, 100's, etc.
I am still kicking myself over a Werndl that was posted last year for weeks and I just watched it get Btt'd. Didn't sell, and went away never to return.
Bittermansbro
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
They are very fun, those old dogs.
Sorry to hear about your Werndl Andy, there's nothing worse than losing an opportunity on something that's not all that common in the first place.
I don't know what the dimensions of the 43 Spanish are compared to the 42 Russian/Berdan, I don't have a Cartridges of the World to compare. I didn't think they were interchangeable.
Sorry to hear about your Werndl Andy, there's nothing worse than losing an opportunity on something that's not all that common in the first place.
I don't know what the dimensions of the 43 Spanish are compared to the 42 Russian/Berdan, I don't have a Cartridges of the World to compare. I didn't think they were interchangeable.
