bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Since those sheep were taken illegally, I highly doubt the two hunters will be able to keep them. So I suspect they got a refund or they'll be suing for one.
another one Outfitter fined for unauthorized hunting
- Thread starter medvedqc
- Start date
Since those sheep were taken illegally, I highly doubt the two hunters will be able to keep them. So I suspect they got a refund or they'll be suing for one.
this is not what was written in the court order about the sheeps ... there is no discussion about the hunters nor the sheeps taken away only the fines and only the guide and the guide outfitter named.
Hunters suing for what? in the Yukon the hunter is as responsible as the guide in case of hunting for non resident. if a non resident hunter do not report something that went wrong then they are co responsible. as if a guide do not report a not legal from a client ...
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Way back in yonder time I knew of a pair of chaps that were doing some illegal tag cutting
BS.
They were separated and questioned. The answers didn't line up.
Both were charged and the one chap paid his fine.
The other didn't and was dragged through the court system.
His name came up, the other didn't as he paid his fine and he was cleared.
Curious to know if this is what partook here?
BS.
They were separated and questioned. The answers didn't line up.
Both were charged and the one chap paid his fine.
The other didn't and was dragged through the court system.
His name came up, the other didn't as he paid his fine and he was cleared.
Curious to know if this is what partook here?
not on that case
the fines are 5000 +750 for each sheep. so $11500 going to the TIPS line ...
the newspaper story is not exactly what i seen in the judgement.
- Location
- Whitehorse
I sure would think they would seize the sheep. If not let's go huntinging the Kluane national park and say we thought it was on the other side of the hiway. For $5000.00 we get the sheep of a lifetime. Cheap!
yes good idea but im not sure it will work for us.
The two hunts in question happened in August, and those two videos look like late August/September conditions, certainly the second video for sure. I know the area very well, and there isn't anything in either video thats so distinctive you could pin point the sub zone.
After all the concerns we Yukon residents raised over allowing Mac Watson to begin actively outfitting in this area, after so many years as resident only, its just makes me sick. "We told you so" seems trite at this point.
We have heard from Yukon residents who were finally drawn in 7-23, that they saw no Sheep and lots of horse tracks during their August hunt. The Yukon Gov should just buy him out, as they should have done when the area was returned to the Heynen family.
After all the concerns we Yukon residents raised over allowing Mac Watson to begin actively outfitting in this area, after so many years as resident only, its just makes me sick. "We told you so" seems trite at this point.
We have heard from Yukon residents who were finally drawn in 7-23, that they saw no Sheep and lots of horse tracks during their August hunt. The Yukon Gov should just buy him out, as they should have done when the area was returned to the Heynen family.
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I actually doubt the sheep would be seized, as the hunters would likely have no idea as to the areas. Sheep was also in season, another factor that needs to be considered, so management wise the population remains healthy and sound, I'm sure this was considered. Seems very possible he knew (the outiftter) what area he was in and certainly should have, but I can't prove it wasn't an honest mistake either. A lot of the times people making false claims knowingly will build a hell of a back story, this guy didn't and ate crow immediately I'm sure with a lot of nerves as well...
This guy apparently was either surprised by his mistake, or realised it was better to own up and is a superb actor as he convinced the authorities. "Oops" isn't a very convincing answer in an interrogation and without us knowing how the interview went, there may well be an honest reason he was given the benefit of the doubt and not thrown the book completely. All we can do is speculate from here, and that's seldom accurate- especially on the Internet.
The fine may well be justified (in its low figure), as,
-Sheep was in season, the legal issue was solely to do with outfitter / resident divisions.
-He may well have messed up. These are neighbouring territories and how many here have been on multi day hikes in the Yukon or Northern BC? One ridge can look a LOT like three others. GPS has helped but easy to hike yourself into the wrong territory- hell I've been that off track in aircraft with much better navigation equipment.
-None of us were there at the interrogation, this smacks of him honestly answering which creeks he crossed etc with a map in front of them and having the mortifying "holy ####" moment. He certainly didn't attempt to hide it in his paperwork, one of the few things we actually know.
This guy apparently was either surprised by his mistake, or realised it was better to own up and is a superb actor as he convinced the authorities. "Oops" isn't a very convincing answer in an interrogation and without us knowing how the interview went, there may well be an honest reason he was given the benefit of the doubt and not thrown the book completely. All we can do is speculate from here, and that's seldom accurate- especially on the Internet.
The fine may well be justified (in its low figure), as,
-Sheep was in season, the legal issue was solely to do with outfitter / resident divisions.
-He may well have messed up. These are neighbouring territories and how many here have been on multi day hikes in the Yukon or Northern BC? One ridge can look a LOT like three others. GPS has helped but easy to hike yourself into the wrong territory- hell I've been that off track in aircraft with much better navigation equipment.
-None of us were there at the interrogation, this smacks of him honestly answering which creeks he crossed etc with a map in front of them and having the mortifying "holy ####" moment. He certainly didn't attempt to hide it in his paperwork, one of the few things we actually know.
Angus,
is it you that posted on Whitehorse Star article?
i know that for a fact we were not at the interrogation nor during the meeting between the Crown and and the lawyers.
but he played guilty only because he was caught. the hunters that took those sheeps are not mentionned in the courthouse papers ???? only guides and outfitter.
the COs fron the reading i had at the courthouse got informations and asked him about the location of the hunts then the rest is now history.
sheep was not in season for the outfitter only for the locals on the draw area so not a really common place to be.
the map is clear and while an honest mystake can happen the Watsons didnt left good memories already in the zone 15 when they operated that outfitting concession in the past.
the TIPPS line get rewarded in total and that is not common.
there are issues between resident hunters and GO like in BC and we cant avoid to say that.
there is now that much money involved in those kind of operations and the result is the final words that outfitters are stretching sometimes too far and they are caught.
the fines on my opinion are on the low side but maybe this is a warning.
Phil
is it you that posted on Whitehorse Star article?
i know that for a fact we were not at the interrogation nor during the meeting between the Crown and and the lawyers.
but he played guilty only because he was caught. the hunters that took those sheeps are not mentionned in the courthouse papers ???? only guides and outfitter.
the COs fron the reading i had at the courthouse got informations and asked him about the location of the hunts then the rest is now history.
sheep was not in season for the outfitter only for the locals on the draw area so not a really common place to be.
the map is clear and while an honest mystake can happen the Watsons didnt left good memories already in the zone 15 when they operated that outfitting concession in the past.
the TIPPS line get rewarded in total and that is not common.
there are issues between resident hunters and GO like in BC and we cant avoid to say that.
there is now that much money involved in those kind of operations and the result is the final words that outfitters are stretching sometimes too far and they are caught.
the fines on my opinion are on the low side but maybe this is a warning.
Phil
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bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
What would the fines be for a resident hunter convicted of the same infractions?
You seem to be very up to speed on court house proceedings and usual penalties........... at least in regard to outfitters.
Personal vendetta?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Not I Phil, just read about and commented on it here. The CO interrogations aren't a light duty deal at least here, I've assisted in an investigation and made statements to them- I would hate to be in the wrong and talking to them. Given the guy made no attempt to cover up and even wrote the incriminating information on the report he hand delivered to the COs, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. It seems they did too, though over ten grand is still not a light touch. Barring us receiving more info all we can do is swirl guesses I'm afraid.
personal vendetta to report an act of poaching lol
... i just reported poaching and conviction. if a well know writer is promoting an hunt and the same outfitter has no problem breaking the laws and rules seems normal that the readers need to be aware.
like in BC most of the local hunters ar enot happy about free lunches given to some GO, what is wrong with that ....
fines can go up to $100 000.
and on a final note im not the only reporting here, do you have a personal vendetta over me or an agenda?
... i just reported poaching and conviction. if a well know writer is promoting an hunt and the same outfitter has no problem breaking the laws and rules seems normal that the readers need to be aware.
like in BC most of the local hunters ar enot happy about free lunches given to some GO, what is wrong with that ....
fines can go up to $100 000.
and on a final note im not the only reporting here, do you have a personal vendetta over me or an agenda?
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Of course I have nothing personal against you, I don't know you from Adam.
Just seems that all your "illegal hunting" posts center solely around outfitters.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
BC is unfortunately a hugely misrepresented and twisted issue. Resident hunters are up in arms because they feel that hunts were taken from them (the move has been largely reversed anyhow to be clear, I believe unfortunately). The reality is allocations were spread between the outfitters, many from the LEH draws in particular, because the resident hunters are not using them. The success resident hunters have had at filling LEH tags is abysmal, in the order of the single digits percent wise in many draws, and neither the conservation goals are being met in population management nor are the funds for tags coming in as most draws aren't even hunted. In BC your buy an LEH card, mail it away, and if you win well you hunt if it's convenient- sadly many, many residents send away cards for areas they've never even been to, and then the realize the challenges after they're drawn and don't go. Or work comes up, or they couldn't afford the boat this year, yada yada yada. The frustrating thing is the outiftters bring in huge money for conservation and were allotted many of the unhunted tags to actually use- then uninformed hysteria over the move largely quashed what wasn't actually a bad decision. Most residents have no idea how this decision process worked nor are they interested to learn, hunting opportunities weren't actually diminished they were simply restructured to leave behind the system of wasted allocations, bring in more funds for conservation, and meet the population goals while boosting the rural BC economy. Rather short sightedly this was rallied against with fervour, and we're left with a system where a guy from the suburbs who's never hunted a bear, and worse anti-hunters submit for LEH draws for grizzly bears in particular and lock up allocations from hunting. It puts a chokehold on the outfitting industry artificially too as the outfitters, actually equipped to hunt the areas and knowledgeable of them watch huge populations go unmanaged year after year. Like most points, things are seldom what they seem at first glance.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I like medved and we've all chatted enough here to know each other a bit even if we've never met. I get what bearkilr's saying too mind you, as there seems to be a ton of outfitter slagging relative to the amount of reporting on poaching and wasting residents. This isn't a comparison or even counter argument, but we all know the residents aren't squeaky clean either- in fact most wildlife offences fall with the side so angry at outfitters. We all have to be cautious not to jump to conclusions, we're all hunters, and all on the same team. I see a lot of the gun thing going on here, as in the guys that like handguns or black rifles getting slagged by the hunting rifle only folks.
seems a lot of Yukon residents had complain to TJ about the way i wrote against his wife. then he contacted me as i said to him i want to read where ive done that. i just reported fact from the court ive seen nothing else.
enjoy your day.
Phil
enjoy your day.
Phil
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Sorry don't buy anything you're saying. Single digits? Please show me those stats. If outfitters can't make a go of it with having vastly superior allocation numbers than anywhere else in North America then that is there problem. I do agree some people don't do their research before selecting the areas they put in for but that doesn't mean it should go to foreign owned outfitters. It means that changes need to be made to the LEH system so that unused tags are re-drawn and another resident can have the opportunity.
I'd sure like to believe this^^^
This is what is continually preached by outfitters as resident opportunity and access is lost. It's supposed to somehow make the losing group feel like someone is looking out for them.
the motivation to "hunt " is not the same. You cannot compare a business to a pastime.
Then there are the tv personality guys, promoting the #### out of garbage, and posting their brains out arguing like a bunch of teenage girls...
Not the same. Not anymore.
