Antique Ammo problems (reload your own) See PIC

burnt_servo said:
that is what I was thinking too ......

but even if a guy was reloading for himself on a progressive press , how would he catch a possibly dangerous screw up? .... or verify a loaded round without taking it apart?
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on a progressive/multi stage press you visually inspect each case to make sure it has the right amount of power some progressive press's can be automated taking the human out of the equation this could lead to problems
 
antiqueguy said:
on a progressive/multi stage press you visually inspect each case to make sure it has the right amount of power some progressive press's can be automated taking the human out of the equation this could lead to problems
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I recall my Dillon 650 having an alarm for a squib or double charge.
 
I can't see tooling up a Dillon for 44 Russian (personally) anyhow. I've a 41 LC that I've maybe shot 700 times in about 6 - 7 years. Most antiques are not something you go out and shoot a couple hundred rounds with friends in an afternoon.
Stay with a single stage, turn on the Satellite Radio to your favorite station, pour a coffee and enjoy losing yourself for an hour or two. Ex-soldiers who have PTSD report significant relaxation benefits from reloading.
It's painful to read about, but really not so difficult to begin reloading straight walled pistol rounds. Get a set of carbide 9mm Luger ( or 38 special )dies and a tank of a handgun to learn on. Make 'em, burn up & repeat a few times.
Then go to the ' Crown Jewel ' of your collection. Because ( Dingus none-with-standing) our antiques are usually our prize piece, no?

Edit; If you were to compare antique guns to girls...Dingus would be the equal of Hugh Hefner, lol
 
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Well lotsa good discussion in the thred guys i agree best to reload your own ammo.
just so you all know this happened to a new shooter who was takeing ammo from a brand new box he had just bought 45 acp reloaded for antiques (thats what its listed as) one dud (good deep primer strike but ammo never fired at all) and then after a few normal shots the Squib then another normal round that did the damage this was outa 12 Rds in a full Box of 50.
There was no snow in the barrel or spiders crawled up there sleeping , nothing weird like that.
He is haveing the rest of the ammo tested by a gunsmith he trusts i will post the info when we get it.
He does know its shooter error on his part for not noticeing the squib but when your buying ammo from a business that listed as OK for antiques there should not be duds and squibs in the first 12 rds no matter what.

I have and upgraded webley MKI** that i have shot 1000s of rds of Wolf SWC and RN lead bullet Wolf ammo thru that i bought from a dealer on CGN and not one round did anything weird they all fired great!
Not one got stuck in the barrel not one failed to fire they all shot the same which is what we expect from ammo bought as factory reloaded ammo.
Would the police buy or want ammo that two in 12 rds didnt work there would be hell to pay its just not something you hear about that much.
unless the ammo is really old.
or poor reloading standards.
 
joe-nwt said:
I'm not defending any reloader, commercial or otherwise. A squib load can turn up from any box of ammo. I've had one from a box of 38spl loaded by Federal. All I'm saying is the squib didn't cause the wrecked barrel. The next round behind it did. And that is operator error.
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I'd say the squib certainly did contribute to this wrecked barrel, because without the squib there would not have been any problem, or wrecked barrel, period. :)
 
jethunter said:
I'd say the squib certainly did contribute to this wrecked barrel, because without the squib there would not have been any problem, or wrecked barrel, period. :)
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Everyone gets a squib sooner or later, regardless of whether the ammo is home-rolled or not. It's what the operator does next that either causes damage or slows the shooting down for few minutes. One can be expensive, the other only usually costs time. But you are right, if there was not a bore obstruction when the trigger is pulled, barrels do not usually get wrecked.;)
 
joe-nwt said:
Everyone gets a squib sooner or later, regardless of whether the ammo is home-rolled or not. It's what the operator does next that either causes damage or slows the shooting down for few minutes. One can be expensive, the other only usually costs time. But you are right, if there was not a bore obstruction when the trigger is pulled, barrels do not usually get wrecked.;)
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That's completely untrue. Some of us are meticulous about our reloading and have never had a "squib" load, and faulty components aside, never will.
When you are buying ammo there is a level of expectation that said ammo will perform as desired. That's what you are paying for.
If the ammo had performed as advertised then there would be no issue. Period.
Calling this event operator error is ridiculous.
 
if this was a well known manufacturer of ammo , like Remington , Winchester or the like , and it could be proven that there where other defective loads in the same box ,I feel fairly safe in the assumption that they would make good repairing or replacing the firearm .

one look at the web page seems to give the impression that this is new manufactured ammunition ........ not " handloads "

all the loads are also listed as either "modern pressures " or "antique suitable " .

so there is a assumption that the ammo is safe to use .


I completely agree with dingus that properly made low pressure ammo would be pushing the bullet completely out of the end of the barrel .

instead , I see this as a inability of the manufacturer to provide adequate quality control on their product .



the person making this ammo needs to be very thankful it wasn't a overcharge that did personal injury .......
 
BrotherRockeye said:
That's completely untrue. Some of us are meticulous about our reloading and have never had a "squib" load, and faulty components aside, never will.
When you are buying ammo there is a level of expectation that said ammo will perform as desired. That's what you are paying for.
If the ammo had performed as advertised then there would be no issue. Period.
Calling this event operator error is ridiculous.
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Start a thread about how meticulous a person thinks they are vs. if they've ever had a squib and see what the results are. You might be as surprised as when your turn comes around.:d

When the ammo did not perform as advertised the barrel was not wrecked. Period.

I've had 1 squib in many 10's of 1,000s of handgun reloads. The primer had fired, the powder that was in the case was scorched but did not ignite. Every other round from that container of powder worked as expected. Can I explain it? No. Perhaps a weak primer. But I'm not so high and mighty about my reloading skills to think it can't happen. I did recognize the squib for what it was, however. I noticed the lack of recoil and the fact that there was no new hole in the paper.;)
 
joe-nwt said:
Start a thread about how meticulous a person thinks they are vs. if they've ever had a squib and see what the results are. You might be as surprised as when your turn comes around.:d

When the ammo did not perform as advertised the barrel was not wrecked. Period.

I've had 1 squib in many 10's of 1,000s of handgun reloads. The primer had fired, the powder that was in the case was scorched but did not ignite. Every other round from that container of powder worked as expected. Can I explain it? No. Perhaps a weak primer. But I'm not so high and mighty about my reloading skills to think it can't happen. I did recognize the squib for what it was, however. I noticed the lack of recoil and the fact that there was no new hole in the paper.;)
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Yes Joe. Operator error. Yes, I get it. :)

Is the squib problem caused by the shooter? NO. Just like getting a flat tire isn't the automobile driver's fault. Operator error which is directly caused by faulty ammo is still operator error - everybody gets that. :)

I will however still stick to my point that commercial ammo shouldn't be containing a high percentage of squibs - regardless of the competence level of the shooter. You might accept that but i won't. Poor quality ammo is garbage as far as i'm concerned.
 
joe-nwt said:
Start a thread about how meticulous a person thinks they are vs. if they've ever had a squib and see what the results are. You might be as surprised as when your turn comes around.:d

When the ammo did not perform as advertised the barrel was not wrecked. Period.

I've had 1 squib in many 10's of 1,000s of handgun reloads. The primer had fired, the powder that was in the case was scorched but did not ignite. Every other round from that container of powder worked as expected. Can I explain it? No. Perhaps a weak primer. But I'm not so high and mighty about my reloading skills to think it can't happen. I did recognize the squib for what it was, however. I noticed the lack of recoil and the fact that there was no new hole in the paper.;)
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This isn't about reloading, and you can make all the unsubstantiated claims you want. They have no bearing on the facts at hand.The poor guy paid for ammo that was supposed to work. It didn't. Trying to blame him because the ammo he purchased failed to do what it was supposed to is, again, ridiculous.

If you pull up to the gas pumps and fill your vehicle with diesel, because that is what is in the vendors gasoline tank, are you to blame because you are driving? Certainly not. This is no different.

and I'm not gonna argue the point with you either. You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. :)
 
jethunter said:
Yes Joe. Operator error. Yes, I get it. :)

Is the squib problem caused by the shooter? NO. Just like getting a flat tire isn't the automobile driver's fault. Operator error which is directly caused by faulty ammo is still operator error - everybody gets that. :)

I will however still stick to my point that commercial ammo shouldn't be containing a high percentage of squibs - regardless of the competence level of the shooter. You might accept that but i won't. Poor quality ammo is garbage as far as i'm concerned.
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You are 100% correct.

Now who the heck is selling this crap? It should be shouted from the roof tops. Crappy ammo is one thing, crappy ammo for expensive, old, rare, collectors guns is a time bomb. What happens when somebody gets a double charge?
 
jethunter said:
Yes Joe. Operator error. Yes, I get it. :)

Is the squib problem caused by the shooter? NO. Just like getting a flat tire isn't the automobile driver's fault. Operator error which is directly caused by faulty ammo is still operator error - everybody gets that. :)

I will however still stick to my point that commercial ammo shouldn't be containing a high percentage of squibs - regardless of the competence level of the shooter. You might accept that but i won't. Poor quality ammo is garbage as far as i'm concerned.
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I agree with everything you said. And perhaps the ammo is in fact, garbage, although we are given 1 example and a claim that "This is not the only case." All I'm saying is the ammo didn't cause the damage.

BrotherRockeye said:
This isn't about reloading, and you can make all the unsubstantiated claims you want. They have no bearing on the facts at hand.The poor guy paid for ammo that was supposed to work. It didn't. Trying to blame him because the ammo he purchased failed to do what it was supposed to is, again, ridiculous.

If you pull up to the gas pumps and fill your vehicle with diesel, because that is what is in the vendors gasoline tank, are you to blame because you are driving? Certainly not. This is no different.

and I'm not gonna argue the point with you either. You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. :)
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I brought up the reloading aspect because there seems to be a consensus that this wouldn't have happened if he reloaded. Especially if he was meticulous.;) I merely pointed out a squib can and does happen to everyone sooner or later.

And if the gas pump was full of diesel, I certainly would notice when I started my vehicle. Would I drive away anyway? No, and neither would you. You would figure out what is wrong and have the gas tank emptied. Otherwise that would be operator error.:p

It doesn't matter what you and I think, I bet the shooter in question now knows all about squibs and what can happen. At least no one got hurt.
 
joe-nwt said:
I agree with everything you said......" All I'm saying is the ammo didn't cause the damage.
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...actually i think I said the ammo did cause the damage, but i think we agree that if the shooter was paying attention he would have prevented the damages from occurring. The difference is mostly sematics I think.

The squib is the underlying condition which is the root cause of this incident; operator error is a contributing factor. Like a faulty tire that blows out and causes a vehicle accident - the tire is the cause, the operator not paying attention or lacking experience may well be a contributing factor - but the bad tire caused the accident. :)
 
At a risk of perpetuating this argument; the blown tire example isn't what I'd have used. That refers to a loss of control.
If we are going with the vehicle anthology; it'd be more along the lines of a speed wobble, it's talking to you...are you listening?
Squibs sound & feel different, if you are going too fast to catch it or don't know what the indicators are...it'll get you.
If I'm going to pretend I'm an Operator and get all rapid fire; I'll use my Norinco 9mm, it's a tank and ( Comparatively speaking of course) disposable.
My antique doesn't see any rapid fire; only mindful shooting, too expensive and treasured to be busting caps with.
But lest it be seen as me picking sides; if the owner & shooter of the damaged gun, was too find more squibs in that batch...I'd say someone owes him for more than the box of reloads. I'd hope he knocked the remaining rounds apart in the presence of a repute-able witness. Maybe a local gunsmith and a few hang-abouts ideally.
 
Speed wobble is still just a loss of control and that analogy is weak at best. It is a result of poor maintenance or improperly tuned equipment. That's not what happened here. The blown tire is actually a very good analogy. An unexpected total failure. :)

Dingus already said the ammo is being checked by an independant gunsmith. I wonder if we'll ever see the reults.
 
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