Antique revolver STOLEN!

trainman278 said:
I thank everyone for their support. I'm just praying that someone doesn't get killed because of my mistake in trusting this person. The police apparently put the serial on CPIC, if it turns up they told me I'd get it back.

It took a bit of doing to convince the officers that this is not a prohibited weapon! Not "designed" or "adapted" for a .32 cal round, but can safely shoot one. Clear as day to me, clear as mud to them.
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If it's used in the commission of a crime, I find it hard to believe that you won't be charged with "unsafe storage". This is Canada, after all.
 
The law here in Canada, is very clear on the storage of antique guns. There are no grey areas, as there are with other aspects of antique guns. The only requirement for storage of an antique gun is that it be unloaded, that's it. You can have them in your house anywhere you want, on the wall, on a table, anywhere. Of course, you can be charged with anything, even if you've committed no crime, even if you don't own antique guns and, that's true in most countries.
 
NaturalPath said:
The law here in Canada, is very clear on the storage of antique guns. There are no grey areas, as there are with other aspects of antique guns. The only requirement for storage of an antique gun is that it be unloaded, that's it. You can have them in your house anywhere you want, on the wall, on a table, anywhere. Of course, you can be charged with anything, even if you've committed no crime, even if you don't own antique guns and, that's true in most countries.
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You sure about that? How about when a gun meets the definition of both an antique firearm AND a prohibited firearm?
 
My gunsafe combination is known only to myself - not even the wife knows it - if she opens the safe (she has no PAL) she is immediately in possession of weapons without a licence. My lawyer has the combination in a sealed envelope in case of my death otherwise No Body goes into the vault.

X Files post is accurate - trust no one.
 
Ya know, there is always someone who can come up with an exception to everything. Of course, an antique gun, that is able to shoot certain kinds of ammo does not fall under the laws that pertain to antique guns, barrel length can also be a factor. It's the same as saying an air gun does not require a PAL, when we all know that this is not necessarily true. When someone says antique gun, I take that to mean it falls under the definition of that term, as laid out by the RCMP. I would not describe a prohibited gun as falling under those specific descriptions. Just the same as if a shotgun, made before 1898, but it shoots modern day 12ga. shells might be called antique but, it does not fall under the RCMP definition for that.
 
Deuce-deuce said:
Of what? Read the FA... the examples are pretty clear. Once you've done that take a look at EVERY "antique letter" all the ones I've seen say the same thing regarding storage.
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CC 84(3)(a) states that an antique firearm is not deemed to be a firearm under the provisions of the firearms act. Can you give us an example of a firearm that meets the definitions of both prohibited and antique?
 
I think he means that an antique firearm might be considered a normal firearm as per other sections of the criminal code, like if you use it to commit a crime.

So, although it might still fall under the definition of an antique according to the FA, it also would fall under the definition of a firearm in the CCC.

Not 100% sure though how that works out.
 
The Kurgan said:
That revolver might be old, but it's certainly not rickety. They also shoot 32 S&W Long quite accurately! That was the police service round for many many years, and in the hands of a criminal, can and will be deadly.

DON'T TRUST PEOPLE IN YOUR GUN ROOMS ! FOR F**K SAKES! I barely allow my family to visit me in mine :)
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Yep, sadly we need to keep that part of our lives close to the chest, and build/ buy good safes, gun rooms, tell very very few people, I am upgrading my setup and won't stop doing so! Don't have to be a loner, just keep it as private as your ### life!
 
afaik your prescribed antique is an antique until it is used in the commission of a crime. At that point if it meets the criteria of such, it would become a prohibited weapon.
A good example would be most antique 32 rf pocket pistols. We all know they are antiques, but as soon as it is used in a crime it becomes a prohib by virtue of the short barrel.
I'm pretty sure that's what Deuce-deuce is getting at, and is correct in that it qualifies as both, circumstances dictating how it is viewed and what part of the law it falls under.
The old timers in this forum have always preached discretion where antique firearms are concerned. Nothing has changed in that regard other than possibly doubling down on that sentiment, ownership included.

OP, hope you get your iron back.
 
They can only be in one classification at a time, the cops can change classifications,, as we have seen, but while it was in the OP possession it was an antique, barrel length doesn't matter! as others have said, once it is used in a crime, it is then prohib, but doesn't affect the OP as it was antique while he had it in his possession!
 
NaturalPath said:
Ya know, there is always someone who can come up with an exception to everything. Of course, an antique gun, that is able to shoot certain kinds of ammo does not fall under the laws that pertain to antique guns, barrel length can also be a factor. It's the same as saying an air gun does not require a PAL, when we all know that this is not necessarily true. When someone says antique gun, I take that to mean it falls under the definition of that term, as laid out by the RCMP. I would not describe a prohibited gun as falling under those specific descriptions. Just the same as if a shotgun, made before 1898, but it shoots modern day 12ga. shells might be called antique but, it does not fall under the RCMP definition for that.
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Read the definition of a prohibited firearm... the nfa speaks about this at length on their site.

Barrel length is not a factor when it comes to defining antiques but it is when deciding between prohibited and restricted.

bgcameron said:
CC 84(3)(a) states that an antique firearm is not deemed to be a firearm under the provisions of the firearms act. Can you give us an example of a firearm that meets the definitions of both prohibited and antique?
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An antique firearm is deemed not to be a firearm for SOME parts of the firearms act. SOME this is where guys start to get confused.
An example would be every cheap suicide special....
tharkhold said:
I think he means that an antique firearm might be considered a normal firearm as per other sections of the criminal code, like if you use it to commit a crime.

So, although it might still fall under the definition of an antique according to the FA, it also would fall under the definition of a firearm in the CCC.

Not 100% sure though how that works out.
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Now we're getting warmer.

NaturalPath said:
My FRT says nothing about storage.
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Your frt really doesn't mean squat... the RCMP's might but in this case we're talking about the firearms act.

BrotherRockeye said:
afaik your prescribed antique is an antique until it is used in the commission of a crime. At that point if it meets the criteria of such, it would become a prohibited weapon.
A good example would be most antique 32 rf pocket pistols. We all know they are antiques, but as soon as it is used in a crime it becomes a prohib by virtue of the short barrel.
I'm pretty sure that's what Deuce-deuce is getting at, and is correct in that it qualifies as both, circumstances dictating how it is viewed and what part of the law it falls under.
The old timers in this forum have always preached discretion where antique firearms are concerned. Nothing has changed in that regard other than possibly doubling down on that sentiment, ownership included.

OP, hope you get your iron back.
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Somebody gets it....



Again, go read your antique letters. Note where it says storage does apply. There aren't storage requirements for antiques, right? That's because in the rcmp's opinion you should be storing as the class of firearm that the gun meets be it restricted, prohibited or nonrestricted. You don't have to like it but don't be surprised if you get charged because you have "antiques lying all over. ;)
 
I don't think it really matter in a commission of a crime if it's a prohib or restricted.

Concealing a firearm makes no difference for class, neither does showing (brandishing it)it in a public area, discharging it, etc.

The only difference (maybe) is if you have an RPAL, and your antique then falls under a 'restricted', you won't get charged for the unlawful possession of a restricted firearm (vice an extra charge for prohib possession - unless stolen, then you're on the hook).

Now all we need is for some guy to do a bank hold up with an antique Colt SAA.. that would be a shame though, losing an original SAA.


Same would apply for a cattle prod. If you use it on a human, I think it would be considered a prohibited weapon in the commission of the act.
 
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Deuce-deuce said:
An antique firearm is deemed not to be a firearm for SOME parts of the firearms act. SOME this is where guys start to get confused.
An example would be every cheap suicide special....
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The Firearms Act and Criminal Code are two different things. I understand what you are saying, but you had me thrown off because initially because you had the two mixed up.
 
Holy clusterfk..

CCC:

Exception — antique firearms
(3.1) Notwithstanding subsection (3), an antique firearm is a firearm for the purposes of regulations made under paragraph 117(h) of the Firearms Act and subsection 86(2) of this Act.


CCC 84(3) (Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:

(a) any antique firearm;


FA 117(h) The Governor in Council may make regulations regulating the storage, handling, transportation, shipping, display, advertising and mail-order sale of firearms and restricted weapons and defining the expression “mail-order sale” for the purposes of this Act;


CCC 86(2) Every person commits an offense who contravenes a regulation made under paragraph 117(h) of the Firearms Act respecting the storage, handling, transportation, shipping, display, advertising and mail-order sales of firearms and restricted weapons.


CCC 96(1) DOES apply here, no exemption for antiques (as above in CCC 84(3))

Possession of weapon obtained by commission of offence
96 (1) Subject to subsection (3), every person commits an offence who possesses a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibit- ed ammunition that the person knows was obtained by the commission in Canada of an offence or by an act or omission anywhere that, if it had occurred in Canada, would have constituted an offence.

CCC 98(1) Also applies

Breaking and entering to steal firearm
98 (1) Every person commits an offence who
(a) breaks and enters a place with intent to steal a
firearm located in it;
(b) breaks and enters a place and steals a firearm located in it; or
(c) breaks out of a place after
(i) stealing a firearm located in it, or
(ii) entering the place with intent to steal a firearm located in it.



Sooo as soon as you 'friend' broke in, and grabbed it, it he contravened the articles of the CCC where the antique firearm is considered a firearm. Reading the punishments for each, he's fcked. CCC 98(1) punishment is up to life imprisonment!
 
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