Any .223 really stand up to the AR-15?

still trying to find that better 223:
tavor was an upset: expensive but it comes with poor accuracy. sold.
ar was restricted and it did not fit me. sold.
t97 was ok . I still have one.
 
I have been wanting a NR AR for a while. Only reason I dont pull the trigger on a ATR custom is it looks so much like an AR im slightly worried about how it may get classified eventually.

Tried t97 that was trash.
Tried a Tavor, it was a nice rifle but its accuracy was not what I was looking for.
Tried a XCR-L for the amount I paid, I thought I got ripped off.. stock was meh, the folder was loose and the entire assembly was wiggly.. Had to put cardboard in the plate to tighten it up when it was extended. Accuracy disappointments again. Felt ok though... It was a first gen.

Have an ACR on its way, I expect to be able to shoot 2 moa or better with it... Will eventually drop in a trigger and "target" barrel. I have high hopes for it.
 
Canadiankeeper said:
Tried a Tavor, it was a nice rifle but its accuracy was not what I was looking for.
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Canada tail said:
tavor was an upset: expensive but it comes with poor accuracy. sold.
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I get a very consistent 2.5MOA out to 200m with M193 (which is what the Israelis use) of several different manufacturers, using a red dot sight. It's not quite as good as a $2500 AR, but there's not much that is.
It absolutely hates the heavier 62gr stuff for sure, then I get something closer to 4MOA.

Same with the T97, ridiculously accurate with the right ammo. Without? Might as well be using buckshot.
 
Murray 3-D said:
Yah great to hear! I handled one at a gun show and instantly thought it was the nicest shouldering bullpup I've ever handled...
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Lots of AR parts commonality, very slick Elfman-brand trigger, best of any bullpup. Zero mechanical issues, save one small trigger issue. He doesn’t make the trigger, so hard to fault K&M for it. A quick email to K&M when I first got it, and the prez (Ken himself) emailed me back. He offered to fix it or walk me through it. 30 seconds later, problem solved. Flawless since. No FTF, FTE, or cycling issues since day one. Any brand of ammo works.

You can order aftermarket parts direct from him. Chambered in .223 Wylde, so no 5.56 pressure concerns. Very well balanced, my kids can handle it easily .

Definitely shoots better than I can, with a SPARC AR on it. Installing a strike eagle next, so can maybe give a proper MOA guess at distance. (It must be better than 2, as I get cloverleafs at 50 with a dot if I take my time) All I know so far is that the steel makes noise at 100 when I point at it.

Solid recommend!
 
Jonesyatpl said:
Lots of AR parts commonality, very slick Elfman-brand trigger, best of any bullpup. Zero mechanical issues, save one small trigger issue. He doesn’t make the trigger, so hard to fault K&M for it. A quick email to K&M when I first got it, and the prez (Ken himself) emailed me back. He offered to fix it or walk me through it. 30 seconds later, problem solved. Flawless since. No FTF, FTE, or cycling issues since day one. Any brand of ammo works.

You can order aftermarket parts direct from him. Chambered in .223 Wylde, so no 5.56 pressure concerns. Very well balanced, my kids can handle it easily .

Definitely shoots better than I can, with a SPARC AR on it. Installing a strike eagle next, so can maybe give a proper MOA guess at distance. (It must be better than 2, as I get cloverleafs at 50 with a dot if I take my time) All I know so far is that the steel makes noise at 100 when I point at it.

Solid recommend!
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Lol well now I really want one! It's this or something similar to the SLR when the time comes
 
Canadiankeeper said:
I have been wanting a NR AR for a while. Only reason I dont pull the trigger on a ATR custom is it looks so much like an AR im slightly worried about how it may get classified eventually.
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Don't live in fear man!! That's exactly what they want. Take the plunge, you'll wonder what took you so long. I'd rather enjoy it while I can than fear "them" and never have enjoyed it at all.

I initially thought it was a lot of money but when I consider how much I've blown on other inferior NR black rifle AR alternatives while I was trying to find something "better", this thing was a bargain.

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Good at wackin' critters too. Can't do that with an ar15 :(

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Would I say indefinitely that firearm to firearm the MV is "better" than the ar15 platform? Nope.

But it is the closest thing I have to one that comes in NR format. When handling it you'd think you actually are handling an ar15 in every aspect except the side charging handle. While out hunting I almost forget that it's not an ar. It's a really great feeling.

When I consider that I can take it out to wack yotes, that to me, makes it way fackin' better than an ar15.

All things considered, to me and how I use it this meets my definition of "better".

Other people's definition of "better" may vary
 
jiffx2781 said:
Don't live in fear man!! That's exactly what they want. Take the plunge, you'll wonder what took you so long. I'd rather enjoy it while I can than fear "them" and never have enjoyed it at all.

I initially thought it was a lot of money but when I consider how much I've blown on other inferior NR black rifle AR alternatives while I was trying to find something "better", this thing was a bargain.

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Good at wackin' critters too. Can't do that with an ar15 :(

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Would I say indefinitely that firearm to firearm the MV is "better" than the ar15 platform? Nope.

But it is the closest thing I have to one that comes in NR format. When handling it you'd think you actually are handling an ar15 in every aspect except the side charging handle. While out hunting I almost forget that it's not an ar. It's a really great feeling.

When I consider that I can take it out to wack yotes, that to me, makes it way fackin' better than an ar15.

All things considered, to me and how I use it this meets my definition of "better".

Other people's definition of "better" may vary
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Was VERY tempting.

Blew the load on the ACR! So I will have some yotes with it soon!
 
Canadiankeeper said:
Was VERY tempting.
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if you were tempted to get a MV why not wait until you are able to get a MacDef or ATRS NR receiver set? Build it over time as funds permit. You'll end up with a platform very similar to an AR and you'll enjoy the ability of building it however you want it to be.

Canadiankeeper said:
Blew the load on the ACR! So I will have some yotes with it soon!
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Congrats on the ACR. It'll make a fine yote rifle.
 
jiffx2781 said:
if you were tempted to get a MV why not wait until you are able to get a MacDef or ATRS NR receiver set? Build it over time as funds permit. You'll end up with a platform very similar to an AR and you'll enjoy the ability of building it however you want it to be.



Congrats on the ACR. It'll make a fine yote rifle.
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Pretty much because I like to be a little different. In the end I will spend a bit more likely but I will have something a bit different.
 
Canadiankeeper said:
Pretty much because I like to be a little different. In the end I will spend a bit more likely but I will have something a bit different.
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I don't see anything wrong with being different. I'm the only one of my hunting group that uses black rifles. Yes they all like their FUDD guns. High grade Browning or Winchester the odd Sako. It drives them nuts when I show up with the MV, Tavor, XCR-M etc... My RFB drove a couple guys really nuts. They absolutely hated me bringing it along.

I get a kick outta it. They think their FUDD guns are "better". But their guns don't make them any better a hunter than me even though they seem to think so.

Nothing wrong with choosing a different tool for the job. It doesn't make any difference as long as you are good with it.
 
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jiffx2781 said:
I don't see anything wrong with being different. I'm the only one of my hunting group that uses black rifles. Yes they all like their FUDD guns. High grade Browning or Winchester the odd Sako. It drives them nuts when I show up with the MV, Tavor, XCR-M etc... My RFB drove a couple guys really nuts. They absolutely hated me bringing it along.

I get a kick outta it. They think their FUDD guns are "better". But their guns don't make them any better a hunter than me even though they seem to think so.

Nothing wrong with choosing a different tool for the job. It doesn't make any difference as long as you are good with it.
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proficiency is key! Never heard any of the critters complain about what gun I used. All to busy being dead. This will be the first "black" gun I have used for hunting. If you dont count "tactical" long range rifles.
 
Moe said:
Rather difficult to answer. You refer to "feels as good" In the manner of weight, balance, and how it shoulders I think the XCR in the light keymod would be close for now. In the future the SLR would be close as you can get to an AR15 but as for accuracy and what is out there now the ACR and SL8 would be good. I mention those since you make reference to a bolt gun and that makes me think accuracy is important to you.

As far as what is better than an AR15. I don't believe there really is anything better.

Moe
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X2. There have been numerous attempts to find a better replacement for the M16/M4. Nobody has really come up with anything definitively better. Some are just as good but to improve one thing, like going to a piston system increases the weight and changes the balance and from what I can make out there is nothing out there with significantly better reliability overall. People will claim it but I have never really seen reliable proof that they are better. Most of the ones that are as good are significantly more expensive so hard to justify. Personally I think the standard gas AR15 is a pretty damn good rifle. Upgrade the trigger, as most are pretty poor, and you have a good reliable workhorse that is decently accurate and fun to play with.
 
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