Any Idea What Caused This?

You said this was new brass, so the comments about sizing etc. probably don't apply. I didn't see it mentioned in your other posts, was this occurring in the same chamber, or multiple different chambers?
 
I'm gonna go with bigedp51 on this.

Dies can be in spec, and still work the brass too much, if the die is on the tight side of spec, and esp. if the chamber is on the loose side.

There is a reason guys like neck size only dies for their rifles, right?

It may be as simple as that particular die being too small at the base for that particular chamber, regardless of the die material.

Seven loads, not too bad looking!

Cheers
Trev
 
trky chsr said:
I didn't mention that it's not old brass, they are brand new R-P never sized or primed. I like the tip for the carbide dies, I will give that a try. I generally load 100 at a time and I keep using the same brass until something like this happens. Usually they split at the top from the constant case mouth expanding but I've never seen them split at the base before. TC
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Your comment above sounds like the cases were store bought factory loads and never reloaded. If that is the fact then it was defective factory brass. Your photo shows indications of a carbide die being used on these cases, I may be wrong I do not have the cases in my hands. I would section the case and look at the crack from the inside.

trky chsr said:
I didn't mention that it's not old brass, they are brand new R-P never sized or primed.
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If they were "NEVER" primed and loaded what made them go bang????????? :slap:

(and how did the inside of the rim get so dirty?) :nest:

 
bigedp51 said:
Measure the base of the case just above the rim, now measure just above where the carbide ring stopped. If the upper measurement is smaller than the base diameter you are over sizing the brass when using carbide pistol dies. In the photos I can "SEE" the case was over resized and the case is smaller in diameter where the carbide ring stopped.

Using a pistol case gauge helps when making die adjustments, the gauge diameter is minimum SAAMI chamber diameter. A carbide die should be adjusted so the case fully enters the case gauge without binding. Any more downward adjustment will over work the brass, and if you notice the case cracked and failed just above where the carbide ring stopped. The brass was over compressed and caused a hairline fracture where the brass is the hardest in the base. Meaning the brass cracked from being squeezed too much.

Below, from the Sierra reloading manual, Hornady and Redding.
(for slicknova and ted_dent to read and grasp) "When all else fails read the manual".


Carbide Sizers

Carbide sizing dies have become tremendously popular in the past ten to fifteen years, and for good reason. As we have already seen, carbide dies do away with the necessity of lubricating cases prior to the resizing process. They do require some attention to how they are set up, to avoid damage to the die, and obtain best results. The often repeated advice to screw the die body down until it contacts the shell holder, will give poor results with a carbide die and may even result in cracking the carbide insert. NEVER adjust the die body down so far that it will contact the shell holder. Carbide dies for straight-wall cases are not designed to full-length resize, and are frequently adjusted to give what amounts to excessive resizing. This often results in an undesirable bulge slightly above the extractor groove. Often called the “Coke bottle” effect, this will cause the brass to be worked excessively and can lead to reduced case life. The only portion of the case that needs to be resized is the area that is expanded by firing. For use in revolvers especially, the case need only be sized enough to allow the case to chamber freely again. Often, this may involve sizing only half the length of the case body and is in effect, neck sizing. If this is enough to allow the case to be chambered easily, then the die is adjusted down far enough.

This will avoid overworking the brass, and will eliminate the so-called Coke-bottle effect.

Hornady Die FAQ

Question: My Titanium Carbide Resizing Die is leaving a ring on the bottom of my case, is there something wrong with my Die?

Answer: The size of the carbide ring inside a Titanium Carbide Sizing Die must be small enough to allow the case to accept a bullet with adequate neck tension. Thus, the bottom of a case may be sized a little more than it has to be. Usually, backing the Die away from the Shellholder to size approximately ½ of the case or enough of the case to hold the bullet will rectify the problem.

Dual Ring Carbide Sizing Dies

Redding has solved the problem that has plagued ordinary carbide dies since their invention. The little ring in a standard carbide die had to do double duty. It sized the top of the case to properly hold the bullet but then continued to size the whole body of the case as well. Unfortunately, these two areas need to be sized at different diameters, so carbide dies of the past have always been a compromise.

Redding's solution to this problem is a unique (patent pending) design, incorporating two carbide rings within one sizing die. The upper ring is positioned to size only the bullet retention portion of the case while the other is located to properly size the case body without overworking the brass. Sized cases will not only look and function better but brass life will increase.

reddingII_zpsd4315e68.jpg
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I really don't know why these guys even bother to argue with you..........LOL I learned this many, many years ago with my 44s using lead bullets and Unique powder. I did also find I had to size much more of the case when loading finger nail shattering loads of 296 with 300 gn jacketed bullets though.......
I found with my 3 different super blackhawks, that I really only had to size the case as far as I seated the bullet into the case, to get good bullet tension, when using light loads like this. The memory in the brass brought it back enough that the fired cases would drop right back into the chambers, so no real need to size the rest of the case.
 
c-fbmi said:
I really don't know why these guys even bother to argue with you.
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Its not them arguing, its "their" sizing experiences, we live in a plus and minus world, these people may have had small tight chambers and a loose fat carbide die.

I Had the same thing happen to me when I first started reloading with a carbide die and had .357 cases split the same way.

On top of this both Remington and Winchester had the very lucrative contract to produce ammunition at our Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. After they lost the contract both Remington and Winchester fell on hard times and many say their quality control went out the window. The cases pictured could be just defective and would have failed with any type die. "WE" do not have the cases in our hands and we are just using physic guesswork.
 
junkdude said:
I vote for defective brass. I had one very similar to this, never fired R-P also but in 45-70, the split was a bit farther up the case and barely visible with the naked eye.
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X 2 on bad brass, Carefully cut one of these cases in half and take a look at the inside. I supect that there will be more of these failures with this batch. Use a stong light and look at the interior of the rest of the cases. Flaws should be obvious.
 
Had the same thing happen with brand new brass first shot I had split brass, looked like it had a pin whole in the side when I look at it with a magnifying glass. Faulty brass
 
Thanks for the informative post bigedp51. I will definitely try backing out the carbide die and see what happens. I doubt it is the chambers as it only happened twice in 6 or 7 loadings. It could be the brass or the sizing process. Thanks for all the replies and if I have no more problems after my adjustments I'll let you know. TC
 
silverfoxdj said:
tagged
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I just had a morbid thought silverfoxdj after looking at your post count...............

If you had never said "tagged" in any of your postings here...............
sunray would have thousands upon thousands more posts than you have now. :nest:

silverfoxdj posts 20,495
sunray posts 19,388

That gives me an idea, I think I'll play "tagged" until I have 40,000 posts and then apply for Canadian citizenship.
(I mean owning that much area in a Canadian forum must be worth something)
Thk
 
bigedp51 said:
I just had a morbid thought silverfoxdj after looking at your post count...............

If you had never said "tagged" in any of your postings here...............
sunray would have thousands upon thousands more posts than you have now. :nest:

silverfoxdj posts 20,495
sunray posts 19,388

That gives me an idea, I think I'll play "tagged" until I have 40,000 posts and then apply for Canadian citizenship.
(I mean owning that much area in a Canadian forum must be worth something)
Thk
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Better than a BS post..
 
Have we found what make of brass?
I'm new to reloading but I've been told with light loads like this .44 brass should last at least 10 times.
At least that's what I was hoping for.
 
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